GM Advice: access to level-appropriate magic shoppes?


Extinction Curse


What would your best advice be to a GM who wants to run his Extinction Curse as close to the written, default, expected, intended way possible?

As written, there is no settlement at party-level along the path of the story for the heroes from level 7 through level 14. During this time, every settlement is either listed as lower level, or not listed at all (but described like a low level settlement).

How does the RAW expect a GM to handle players wanting to pop over to, say, Absalom, to spend all their money? Perhaps even using transportation magic to make it an easy day trip..?

Is there even an official expectation that if an AP doesn't detail a settlement of a given level, such a settlement is simply not accessible by the heroes, full stop?

Please - I am fully aware I can make my own decision. I need help figuring out what neither the CRB nor the GMG states explicitly: what is the default state? The fall-back option?


Pathfinder Adventure Path Subscriber

On page 24 of the GMG, the answer is pretty explicitly stated as:

"Beyond that, it all depends on how much you want to allow the players to determine their abilities and how much verisimilitude you want in your game. You can set the specifics where you need, but let’s look at three possibilities."

Then gives you three options:
PCs can buy what they want where they want.
PCs can buy what they want but must put in additional
effort.
Magical markets are rare or nonexistent.

My reading of this is that there is not 1 way that GMs should determine what players can buy, beyond, don't let them buy items that are unavailable to them, but it even gives you ways to make the rarity system just an added cost (under PCs can buy what they want where they want).

PFS has its own set of rules for wealth and purchasing items at a set official level, and I think Age of Ashes has stricter guidelines as well because it can be PFS sanctioned, but I don't think Extinction Curse was designed to "have to" conform to PFS guidelines, leaving GMs to have to choose one of these three approaches for their own game.

Liberty's Edge

I think the default assumption is that you can go wherever you like (or wherever you have the time for, anyway). Settlements not specifically listed very much included.

Remember that a single magic item crafter in the party makes settlement level immaterial in most ways. Saying that transportation options do the same seems eminently reasonable.

If it helps, at least one of the folks at Paizo specifically mentioned going shopping in Absalom as an option in this AP (as part of you not going there except for that, but still a clear indicator that it's assumed).


Pathfinder Adventure Path, Starfinder Adventure Path Subscriber

At each chapter new npcs join circus, i think some trader can join and travel with this growing circus, regulary trading items for a new one, and buying items from party.


As I'm sure you realize, the topic here is me (the GM) not wanting to have to make the call myself.

If I don't allow it, I'm a dick.

If I do allow it, all kinds of constraints are meaningless (since Absalom is the one place on Golarion where *everything* can be found)

So, this discussion is about what passages from RAW sources can I point to, in order not to have to make the final call myself?

---

Unicore: That part doesn't even specify the "limited to settlement level" that is the cornerstone of my assumptions; that there is a codified set of limit that can absolve the GM of responsibility.

That is, I'm not interested in either of
"PCs can buy what they want where they want."

"PCs can buy what they want but must put in additional effort."

"Magical markets are rare or nonexistent."

I'm interested in
"Each adventure specifies when and where magic items can be purchased. As a general rule, you can purchase any common item up to the settlement's level. What settlements are available within the context of the story, and their levels, is specified by each adventure."

---

Deadmanwalking: well, "PCs can buy what they want where they want" doesn't do it for me. And honestly, I don't think that is the default assumption, since it massively nerfs crafting (which is only valuable when you CANNOT just buy stuff whenever you want).

For instance, the only real reason to take the Inventor feat is that you expect a long stretch without level-appropriate shoppes (and sufficient downtime during the story to actually be able to use it).

---

Valeor: that's an interesting idea - tying the "shoppe aspect" to the successful recruitment of circus NPCs. I like that, and it adds a new reason to why bother recruiting them NPCs.

Thanks all for responding.


Pathfinder Adventure Path Subscriber

Zapp, I am glad you found an answer that will work for your table.

My answer maybe should have been boiled down to: I don't think this specific Adventure Path provides strict guidelines for settlement level and item availability for the first 3 or 4 books at least.

It leaves it to the GM. Maybe Ron will see this and give you a guideline for how he might do it, but I don't think there is going to be an official errata to set up specific levels for the settlements that creates an official limit for playing this AP "the right way."

It seems like that ambiguity might be an accident (most of those books were probably written before the GMG), or it might be intentional (to allow GMs more leeway), but the answer is the GM will have to decide on how much time and energy they want to put into magic shopping, knowing that certain aspects of the game will get much harder for the PCs if they fall massively behind on useful magical equipment.

It is probably best to talk to your players about what you will decide as soon as possible so they know what is expected as far as accessibility of magic items.

Liberty's Edge

1 person marked this as a favorite.
Zapp wrote:

I'm interested in

"Each adventure specifies when and where magic items can be purchased. As a general rule, you can purchase any common item up to the settlement's level. What settlements are available within the context of the story, and their levels, is specified by each adventure."

I think you're doomed to disappointment. PF2 is very intentionally a lot more 'this is up to the individual GM' on stuff like this than PF1 ever was, and even PF1 was never this specific.

Zapp wrote:
Deadmanwalking: well, "PCs can buy what they want where they want" doesn't do it for me. And honestly, I don't think that is the default assumption, since it massively nerfs crafting (which is only valuable when you CANNOT just buy stuff whenever you want).

I never said that was the default assumption. I said the default assumption was that you could travel wherever you have the time and inclination to do so. In most APs, that very much does not include Absalom, at least not until you have Teleport and are 13th level (and having Teleport is not gonna be universal among groups, either).

Extinction Curse, by virtue of occurring in the immediate vicinity of Absalom, is a different situation.

Also, Crafting is a single Skill Feat (ie: not a huge investment), and is valuable even if you can easily buy things because it allows you to always 'Earn Income' (in the form of a discount on crafting) at your own level, something that often isn't available in the same way (ie: making a quick trip to Absalom for shopping is viable, especially once you have Teleport...going there for a month of downtime to Earn Income usually isn't).

It's also relevant if you can't teleport somewhere like Absalom, which as I note, is a situation that is actually true pretty often, just less often in Extinction Curse specifically.

But a particular Skill Feat being a tad less valuable in a specific AP should not be surprising. Just as a purely urban AP will find less uses for Survival Skill Feats, one taking place somewhere where you can easily travel to a high level city for shopping will have less uses for crafting. That's just the nature of APs having a specific setup.

Zapp wrote:
For instance, the only real reason to take the Inventor feat is that you expect a long stretch without level-appropriate shoppes (and sufficient downtime during the story to actually be able to use it).

Inventor is useful if you want to create items that are illegal or hard to acquire otherwise, as well as if you can't access a high level area. Even more than Magical Crafter it's not super useful in this AP specifically...but that's specific to this AP rather than a general thing.


Deadmanwalking wrote:


Remember that a single magic item crafter in the party makes settlement level immaterial in most ways.

According to the GMG,the default assumption is that you can get both items and formulas at the same level-- the level of the settlement. I think this is bad for several reasons and am inclined to ignore it and say a settlement can have formulas up to its level plus four or something. But it seems worth noting that following the written guidelines means you can't really craft things that you can't already buy.

I agree with the rest of what you say though.

Liberty's Edge

1 person marked this as a favorite.
Captain Morgan wrote:

According to the GMG,the default assumption is that you can get both items and formulas at the same level-- the level of the settlement. I think this is bad for several reasons and am inclined to ignore it and say a settlement can have formulas up to its level plus four or something. But it seems worth noting that following the written guidelines means you can't really craft things that you can't already buy.

I agree with the rest of what you say though.

I'm not sure that's necessary to make it useful. If you plan ahead you can afford formula way over your level, and buy them in advance by going to a city once or twice and then not returning. That's pretty useful if you only get to a big city occasionally or with difficulty.

And, of course, this is another situation for Inventor to be useful.


Deadmanwalking wrote:
Captain Morgan wrote:

According to the GMG,the default assumption is that you can get both items and formulas at the same level-- the level of the settlement. I think this is bad for several reasons and am inclined to ignore it and say a settlement can have formulas up to its level plus four or something. But it seems worth noting that following the written guidelines means you can't really craft things that you can't already buy.

I agree with the rest of what you say though.

I'm not sure that's necessary to make it useful. If you plan ahead you can afford formula way over your level, and buy them in advance by going to a city once or twice and then not returning. That's pretty useful if you only get to a big city occasionally or with difficulty.

And, of course, this is another situation for Inventor to be useful.

True on both accounts! Though I think buying formulas 5 levels ahead is a lot of forethought to expect from players. (The eyes of most of my players tend to glaze over when it comes to shopping in the first place, so Inventor would solve the problem of course.


While book 3 does seem to be without high level markets, book 4 ends with access to goods from a merchant ship. Since that ship also appears in Kerrick at the end of book 3, I’m using that as the means for the heroes to purchase equipment appropriate to their level. Not everything they wanted was on board, but they described their needs (and demonstrated wealth), so they’ll be able to get fully equipped on the next stop in port. They’ll at least start book 4 geared up.


1 person marked this as a favorite.

Book 3 provides access to the ring of stone shifting which allows one person to travel through stone for 100 miles up to three times per day. If the PCs travel to the south east portion of the Swardlands right below the mountain range, that puts them within 100 miles of Absalom so one person can go there for a shopping trip and be back before the end of the day. I love the ingenuity of my players! That was probably the best used option in that book.

In book 4 they also traveled back to Escadar by boat to buy slightly lower level items, check in with their old friend Chief Constable Paldreen, and gather the resonant reflection for new PCs. Yes, finding places to buy appropriate gear for this AP has not been easy, but also not impossible.

Dark Archive

2 people marked this as a favorite.
steelhead wrote:

Book 3 provides access to the ring of stone shifting which allows one person to travel through stone for 100 miles up to three times per day. If the PCs travel to the south east portion of the Swardlands right below the mountain range, that puts them within 100 miles of Absalom so one person can go there for a shopping trip and be back before the end of the day. I love the ingenuity of my players! That was probably the best used option in that book.

In book 4 they also traveled back to Escadar by boat to buy slightly lower level items, check in with their old friend Chief Constable Paldreen, and gather the resonant reflection for new PCs. Yes, finding places to buy appropriate gear for this AP has not been easy, but also not impossible.

Given the PCs are running what is functionally a small company, I consistently let them purchase nearly anything by way of sending out some low level circus employees to Absalom to purchase items on their behalf. It took a few days, but it worked well enough.

Except for when Willowside was under siege. They couldn't get a man out, then.
Plus soon thereafter they made it to Shraen, so they had easier access than ever.

Community / Forums / Pathfinder / Pathfinder Adventure Path / Extinction Curse / GM Advice: access to level-appropriate magic shoppes? All Messageboards

Want to post a reply? Sign in.
Recent threads in Extinction Curse