Animals, Bonded Animal, Train Animal

[MSAbaddon]

Hi,
can anyone clarify the rules for the feats Bonded Animal, Train Animal and for animals (not animal companions) in general?

Bonded Animal:
Is this feat supposed to work on any animal of the beastiary or only on the few entries in the Equipment-->Animals section of the Player's Handbook? Since it has a flat DC20 check - given the fitting environment, sufficient downtime and some lucky rolls a e.g. lvl1 character could possibly befriend a T-Rex (yes, I know, a DM would rather have the chracter instantly been eaten by the T-Rex, my question is, if it's possible at all)

Train Animal:
Ok, our Lvl1 character just got his own T-Rex. Can he use all of his abilities using command an animal (Trample, Swallow Whole) or does he have to teach the T-Rex those tricks using Train Animal. If he does not have to teach them, what actually is the function of Train Animal's "Teach new Actions"?

Animals in general:
The biggest of all questions: Is the T-Rex frightened 4 and fleeing as soon as a battle begins (meaning at Lvl1 he flees from spiders and rats...)? There is a rule about that, but it is located in the Equipment-->Animals section followed by a rather short list of buyable animals. Does the rule only apply to those animals or to all animals in general?

Overall, the animal rules are quite confusing. If every anmal can be a bonded animal, every character with nature gets a significant boost in power at the cost of just 1 skill feat due to the fact, that a creature of the same level easily overpowers melee characters in termns of atk-bonus and damage. With the launch of beasiary 2 end of may there will be even more animals available on every level.

[Aswaarg]

I think those feats are open to GM interpretation and are like that on porpuse.

As is written in the rules, bonding with an animal only makes him permanently helpful to you. That means is easier for you to command him with Command animal, but that´s it.

As I play it, with Bonded Animal you decide if that animal follows you to adventure or is something for downtime (wainting you home/on the near forest). Wich animal you are able to pick, is something to talk between the GM and the player , but choosing animals too powerful is not the best for the player, because he has to use Command animal to make the animal follow orders (and the DC is the Will DC).

Also, take into account that this animal is a wild animal, is helpfull to the player, but is not like an animal companion, the player donsn´t have full control of th animal, so the GM can interpret him with more freedom (maybe the T-Rex is helpfull with the player, but if he get´s near a goat, he is going to eat it).

Regarding Train animal, the master should give a table of actions that the animal "knows", as I play it, the animal "knows" every action that is in his statblock (things tahta are natural for the animal). When the player wants the T-Rex to do an action (in combat or out of combat), he has to spend an action and do a Command animal check against the Will DC of the animal, so is a 1 to 1 action ratio, and sometimes he is going to fail the check. If the player trains the animal a trick that already knows, then he can use the 1 action Command animal without needing to check, but it doesn´t mean the animal is a puppet(you can´t ask the T-rex to walk over lava). Teaching new actions to an animal is something to work between the player and the GM, the T-Rex doesn´t know how to wear people in his back, so you have to train it to "Ride" so he let´s you to get on top of him. Maybe you want your T-Rex trained to do a big Roar so he can intimidate (so he will gain an Intimidate skill).

Also you have to know taht, if the animal is not ordered anything, the animal can do whatever the GM wants (the T-rex maybe atacks an enemy in combat, or atacks a helpfull NPC, or gets scared with a fireball and runs away...).

Another thing is, does your bonded animal lvl up? Again, the player should work it with the GM, because there aren´t rules about it.

So having a bonded animal is an investment (skill feats, weeks of downtime), but the reward is not that big (in the best case scenario, you have to spend 1 action to make the animal do 1 action) and is not guaranteed at all. In the end, it nees to be something interesting but it can´t be better than an animal companion.

[Aratorin]

Bonded Animal is a trap. Don't do it. You're going to invest a bunch of downtime Bonding with the Animal and Training it, and it's going to die horribly the first time it gets near a combat, because level appropriate animals are weaker than PCs, and they don't level, so they get even worse over time.

Yes, theoretically your Level 1 PC could Bond with a T-Rex, but that would involve finding a T-Rex, which is going to start Hostile, and then not only surviving an encounter with it, but also somehow improving its Attitude from Hostile to at least Indifferent in order to be able to prevent it from eating you while you attempt to Bond with it.

[MSAbaddon]

Aratorin wrote:

Bonded Animal is a trap. Don't do it. You're going to invest a bunch of downtime Bonding with the Animal and Training it, and it's going to die horribly the first time it gets near a combat, because level appropriate animals are weaker than PCs, and they don't level, so they get even worse over time.

Yes, theoretically your Level 1 PC could Bond with a T-Rex, but that would involve finding a T-Rex, which is going to start Hostile, and then not only surviving an encounter with it, but also somehow improving its Attitude from Hostile to at least Indifferent in order to be able to prevent it from eating you while you attempt to Bond with it.

What - in your opinion - are Level appropriate animals dir e.g. a lvl6 Party? Can't be a Lvl6 creatures, because that is extremely powerful compared to the characters.