Sin schools / Sin magic


Conversions


1 person marked this as a favorite.
Pathfinder Adventure, Lost Omens, Rulebook, Starfinder Adventure Path, Starfinder Roleplaying Game Subscriber

So I have been convering the content out of rise of the runelords that is not represented and am a bit stumped at the thelassian sin schools. The main reason being that the forbidden schools are, not just mechanically but also in lore a hard restriction and I'm trying to think of what kind of boon they could have that would make that restriction acceptable over a normal specialist.

My current working plan is that spell slots from level 1 through 8 are treated as one spell level higher for the purposes of heightening their specialized schools. Of course heightening isnt even across the board, most evocation and conjuration spells have it while things like transmutation or necromancy often do not.

So what are your thoughts? Is this a workable point to start from or a horrible idea?


2 people marked this as a favorite.
Pathfinder Roleplaying Game Superscriber

I think a PF2 version of sin magic would need to be toned down a bit. Making spells function a level higher like that would make Sin magic an always-optimal choice one way or another and I don't think that's a good idea. It especially makes Enchantment vicious, as being able to punch above your weight limit basically lets you ignore the Incapacitation trait.

2e got rid of forbidden schools entirely, so I don't think Sin magic should entirely bring them back.

Sin magic should almost certainly be an alternate choice for the wizard Arcane School class feature, and should be of a similar power level. Or actually, a better way to do it might be to have it function as a Thesis. Or a little of both.

You could do something like "You gain two bonus spell slots per level from your Arcane School instead of one. However, at each spell level except for your two highest, you gain one less regular spell slot per level."

That would keep the theme of sacrificing for maximum power in your field.

If you really wanted to do something with opposition schools, I would go for something like "you suffer a -2 status penalty to spell attack rolls and spell DCs with your opposition schools". You would have to find an appropriate bonus to pair it with though - NOT a +2 to the favored school, that is way too good, and not a bonus spell per level either. Maybe an additional focus spell based on the sin? Or perhaps "you can use Drain Bonded Item an extra time per day, but only to cast a spell from your arcane school".

Envoy's Alliance

This is my interpretation of the Thassilonian Specialist as a Wizard Thesis.

Arcane Thesis

THASSILONIAN SPECIALIST
Following the ancient philosophies created by Thassilon's runelords a Thassilonian specialist wizard receives two additional spell slots of each spell level he can cast instead of one (Diviners and Universalists cannot choose this Arcane Thesis). These bonus spell slots must both be used to prepare the same spell from the wizard's school of specialization, allowing the wizard to cast that spell twice (as he has prepared the spell twice). The wizard cannot use these slots to prepare two different spells, even if they are of the school he is specialized in.

A Thassilonian specialist does not get to customize his choice for opposition schools his opposition schools are determined for him when he chooses his specialization. These restrictions are more significant than those most wizards follow, and are known as prohibited schools. A Thassilonian wizard can never prepare a spell that is in one of his prohibited schools-he treats these spells as if they were not on the arcane spell list. If using an Activate an Item action with the Cast a Spell descriptor to cast a spell from one of his prohibited schools, the action is automatically disrupted and counts towards any daily activation limit for that item.

ENVY (ABJURATION): The art of suppressing magic other than your own. PROHIBITED SCHOOLS: evocation, necromancy.

GLUTTONY (NECROMANCY): Magic that manipulates the physical body to provide for an unending hunger for life. PROHIBITED SCHOOLS: abjuration, enchantment.

GREED (TRANSMUTATION): Magically transforming things into objects of greater value or utility, and enhancing the physical self. PROHIBITED SCHOOLS: enchantment, illusion.

LUST (ENCHANTMENT): Magically controlling other creatures to satisfy your desires, and manipulating others' minds, emotions, and wills. PROHIBITED SCHOOLS: necromancy, transmutation.

PRIDE (ILLUSION): Perfecting your own appearance and domain through trickery and illusions. PROHIBITED SCHOOLS: conjuration, transmutation.

SLOTH (CONJURATION): Calling agents and minions to perform your deeds for you, or creating what you need as you need it. PROHIBITED SCHOOLS: evocation, illusion.

WRATH (EVOCATION): Mastery of the raw destructive power of magic, and channelling those destructive forces. PROHIBITED SCHOOLS: abjuration, conjuration.


That is way too punishing for just 1 extra spell.


Pathfinder Roleplaying Game Superscriber
Temperans wrote:
That is way too punishing for just 1 extra spell.

That is how it was in 1E. You can't prepare or cast opposed schools but got a 2nd casting of your bonus slot from your prefered school.

Maybe some kind of buff to your chosen school would be nice on top.

Edit:Also in 1E the opposed school spells could be used from items using umd so maybe allowing them with Trick Magic Item feat is also fair.


I mean spells in PF1 were much stronger. So that 1 extra casting was quite powerful. Also yeah, PF1 they could still use magic items via UMD.

In PF2 spells are not as strong and they heavily enourage you to use different schools. So it would be good to have something extra to not be punished for not having those other schools.

Also the fact that the version prevents using Trick Magic item makes it worse. I would say that those spells dont count as being in your tradition or something.


Going off MaxAstro's idea, maybe give a bonus to your favored school and a penalty to your opposition schools? Like a +1/+2 to the DC, duration, heighten, etc. when you cast your favored spells but your opposition school spells take that as a penalty.

Community / Forums / Pathfinder / Pathfinder Second Edition / Conversions / Sin schools / Sin magic All Messageboards

Want to post a reply? Sign in.
Recent threads in Conversions