It is the former because it is a wizard class feat
Access to druid class feats comes from one of the dedication feats (and usually capped at half level)
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It is the former because it is a wizard class feat
Access to druid class feats comes from one of the dedication feats (and usually capped at half level)
That is what I figured was probably the case, but Cantrip Expansion just says "You may prepare 2 additional cantrips per day", without being entirely specific that they must be Arcane cantrips / Wizard class cantrips. It does say "prepare", so I figured it at least has to be from a Prepared caster, which a Druid is, so I thought I'd ask.
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I see no reason you couldn't add cantrips to either list: you have 2 sets of spells prepared so you could add additional cantrips to either. The class you get it from doesn't matter unless it actually tells you it does: in this case it never limits where those additional spells a from or where they go past general availability rules. The character has access to druid cantrips so I see no reason they can't add additional druid cantrips to that.
That said, you'd have to add druid to druid or wizard to wizard: you couldn't add druid cantrips to your wizard list to allow int use and wizard spell prof. for instance.
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The feat having the Wizard trait, but not other class traits despite numerous other classes also having a version of the feat, is the game providing a limit to where those additional spells come from.
Where is that rule stated? As far as I know, those traits are for access and not have no baring on what the contents do. Does a Eschew Materials only work for wizard spells? Nothing I've found would lead me to think so.
PS: Does a Reach spell or Widen spell taken as a wizard feat then not work on other spells you get in your opinion?
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The feat having the Wizard trait, but not other class traits despite numerous other classes also having a version of the feat, is the game providing a limit to where those additional spells come from.
So, in your view, an Animal Companion gained by a Ranger Feat cannot be enhanced by a Druid Feat? I'm pretty sure that's wrong. The Trait is just indicating Access, especially because you can't take the same Feat twice.
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The feat having the Wizard trait, but not other class traits despite numerous other classes also having a version of the feat, is the game providing a limit to where those additional spells come from.So, in your view, an Animal Companion gained by a Ranger Feat cannot be enhanced by a Druid Feat? I'm pretty sure that's wrong. The Trait is just indicating Access, especially because you can't take the same Feat twice.
Or a rogues Magical Trickster not working with spells from multiclass or innate spells and ONLY working with Minor Magic...
Where is that rule stated?It's not stated. I feel it is implied by text on page 68 regarding Class Feats and Class features that require choosing between options.
I think it's implied that feats and such do EXACTLY what they say: no more, no less. If they don't have limitations listed, then I see no reason to invent hidden ones by reading intent written between the lines.
But lets take a look at pg# 68 once...
Class Feats
Source Core Rulebook pg. 68
"This section specifies the levels at which your character gains class feats—special feats that only members of that class can access. Class feats are granted beginning at 1st or 2nd level, depending on the class. Specific class feats are detailed at the end of each class entry.": Note the word I bolded: ACCESS, not use. I'm taking the section on it's word that when it says access it means just that. I see nothing even hinting on how such feats are used or their interaction with other classes abilities.
What exactly did you read that leads you to infer that it means something else?
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It would be really terrible for the game if silent spell is only useable on wizard spells.
It would be really terrible for the game if silent spell is only useable on wizard spells.
Imagine being a wizard with MCD cleric and being told you need to take reach spell twice if you want to use it on all your abilities.
It would be really terrible for the game if silent spell is only useable on wizard spells.Imagine being a wizard with MCD cleric and being told you need to take reach spell twice if you want to use it on all your abilities.
Or worse, that it counts as the same feat but only works for the class you picked it from so you're barred from taking it twice.
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If that were the case, you wouldn't think Cantrip Expansion let you pick the additional cantrips from any/all sources of cantrip you happen to have available because that is against the "no more" part of "EXACTLY what they say."
I don't get what you mean: what goes against the "no more": the feat NEVER EVER says you must pick from the class you take the feat from.
From my reading the entire rule-set, outside of the rules that are specifically for multi-classing, is written with language that assumes each character will only have one class.
Right there is the mistake as what we are talking about IS multiclassing: this introduces different class variables into the mix. It'd be one thing if multiclass archetypes weren't part of the same book,but since they where, I can see how the class assumes other class abilities aren't something that needs mentioning [or non-class abilities like innate ancestry spells or Red Mantis Assassin's spell casting].
Which is why feats like Cantrip Expansion say "You can prepare two additional cantrips each day" instead of "You can prepare two additional arcane cantrips each day" or "You can prepare two additional cantrips from those granted by your sorcerer class" or "You can prepare two additional cantrips, from any sources of cantrips you prepare so long as the total number of extra cantrips is two, each day"
Assuming that's what it means isn't proof that's what it means: you are adding 'from your class list' to the requirements. This is never mentioned in any section of the rules I can find. If it was as you think, why not say something instead of letting it be an unwritten rule you have to read tea leaves to divine? The game is CLEARLY built with the idea that you can mix and match classes with archetypes so you'd think something as vitally important as abilities/feats from classes being strictly limited in modifying just that class and never ever modifying anything else would be prominently and explicitly part of the rules.
Very simply, I can't in any way imagine that Magical Trickster was meant to ONLY EVER work with Minor Magic [even though that is never mentioned] and never works with innate spells from race, archetype and/or other class spells. Or that reach spell only ever works for that class but no other.
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"no more" means not adding anything not explicitly stated, and since the feat "NEVER EVER says" you get to pick from whatever classes you have available... should be obvious.
What SHOULD be obvious is that NO spell list is mentioned, so no spell list is required: anything else is indeed added content. You are adding a limitation of the feat only working within the class itself, something never brought up anywhere in the game.
Let's ignore that this comment was made in the context of applying to reach spell because that feat doesn't have the same context of an implied limit, and consider cantrip expansion only:
Lets not as you haven't proven any implication beyond your own assumption of it. Reach Spell has as much implied limitation as cantrip expansion. They have identical listed limitations on spell list and class: none.
expansion is different form other feats that multiple classes have as class feats (example: quick draw, which you could take as a ranger or a rogue) because it's effect isn't clear whether there would or wouldn't be a benefit to taking it the second time. The wording does imply there would be a benefit, though, so I'm fine with assuming there would be.
It's perfectly clear based on what what cantrip sources/lists you have access to.
Would it be 2 cantrips added, even if they were both from not-the-class you chose the feat from?
The feat makes NO mention of it's benefits being class locked, so it isn't: as long as you have access to cantrips and it's associated spell list to pick more then you can take them.
Example, if you are a wizard with the cleric archetype feats sufficent to do so, could you take Cantrip Expansion (as a wizard feat) and expand your arcane cantrips with it and then take Cantrip Expansion (as a cleric feat) and expand your arcane cantrips again? If yes, why? If not, why not?
Not a simple yes/no here as you are mixing two seperate questions together and they don't have the same answer.
Can a wizard that multiclasses into cleric take cantrip expansion and apply it to their cleric cantrips? Yes. Why? because that's what the feat says: it places no limits on what class/spell list is used so it defaults to which of those you have access to so if you have access to multiple ones, you have multiple options.
Can you take cantrip expension twice from 2 different classes feats? No. Rules options can never be taken more than once unless explicitly noted as such as per Mark: Mark made this point when saying that you can't take Cantrip Connection twice on a familiar. The same applies to the cantrip expansion feat as it's the same feat no matter what class you get it from and give an identical effect: 2 more cantrips usable per day.
A question back: does a familiar have to grant a cantrip from the class that you got the familiar feat from? If you say yes, does that mean that if I take a gnome with Animal Accomplice that that familiar is forever banned from taking Cantrip Connection because it wasn't granted by a class?