I understand the way the rule works, but is it possible to do it more than once, as long as its all different ability scores involved?
No. The rule says you can take 2 additional ability flaws and gain 1 additional ability boost.
No. The rule says you can take 2 additional ability flaws and gain 1 additional ability boost.
It also doesn't say it can only be done once, which kind of leaves it out in the open. Like if It says you can eat one slice of cake, it doesn't mean you can't eat two. I know the analogy might seem silly but I'm legitimately uncertain based on how it's worded.
Generally, unless an option specifically says you can take it multiple times, you can only take it once. Otherwise the entire CRB would be cluttered with every feat/etc. specifying that you can only take them once.
So, we start with a human (for convenience), and we'll say they boost STR and DEX (starting . Then they take a voluntary flaw to WIS and CHA (starting from the bottom, to boost CON.
We now have:
+STR
+DEX
+CON
Neutral INT
-WIS
-CHA
So to take two more flaws, if you could, you would have to be taking flaws in something you previously boosted in the ancestry step. If you could do that, let's say you take a penalty to INT and CON. Now the only places to put your boost are in something you already boosted, which you can't do, or trying to cancel one of your negatives again.
I don't see how multiple voluntary flaws would be usable, even if allowed, unless you were doubling up bonuses or penalties on a stat.
Reading it like two slices of cake just doesn't work.
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Like if It says you can eat one slice of cake, it doesn't mean you can't eat two.
That's... Exactly what that means. You reach for that second slice, and your hand is getting slapped.
But leaving aside English interpretations, why would you want to?
You can't increase a stat that's already getting increased by your race, and you can't decrease a stat that's getting decreased by your race. So that leaves... I actually can't come up with any instance where this benefits you.
Do you have a specific example?
So, we start with a human (for convenience), and we'll say they boost STR and DEX (starting . Then they take a voluntary flaw to WIS and CHA (starting from the bottom, to boost CON.
We now have:
+STR
+DEX
+CON
Neutral INT
-WIS
-CHASo to take two more flaws, if you could, you would have to be taking flaws in something you previously boosted in the ancestry step. If you could do that, let's say you take a penalty to INT and CON. Now the only places to put your boost are in something you already boosted, which you can't do, or trying to cancel one of your negatives again.
I don't see how multiple voluntary flaws would be usable, even if allowed, unless you were doubling up bonuses or penalties on a stat.
Reading it like two slices of cake just doesn't work.
You can also take two flaws in one ability.
For example if goblin starts with + to dex, you can take -4 to that stat.
"These ability flaws can be assigned to any ability score you like, but you can’t apply more than one ability flaw to the same ability score during this step unless you apply both of the additional ability flaws to a score that is already receiving an ability boost during this step. "
Generally, unless an option specifically says you can take it multiple times, you can only take it once. Otherwise the entire CRB would be cluttered with every feat/etc. specifying that you can only take them once.
This makes sense. Thanks!
No. The rule says you can take 2 additional ability flaws and gain 1 additional ability boost.It also doesn't say it can only be done once, which kind of leaves it out in the open. Like if It says you can eat one slice of cake, it doesn't mean you can't eat two. I know the analogy might seem silly but I'm legitimately uncertain based on how it's worded.
If a buffet says each person can take 1 slice of cake, you can't take 2.
If a buffet says each person can take 1 slice of cake, you can't take 2.No. The rule says you can take 2 additional ability flaws and gain 1 additional ability boost.It also doesn't say it can only be done once, which kind of leaves it out in the open. Like if It says you can eat one slice of cake, it doesn't mean you can't eat two. I know the analogy might seem silly but I'm legitimately uncertain based on how it's worded.
Confusing. If you go to a buffet isn't that generally assumed you can eat whatever is laid out there? I've never been to a different style of buffet but I could be wrong.
What I'm saying is that I can jump once. It doesn't mean I can't jump twice, doing once in a row.
Like if It says you can eat one slice of cake, it doesn't mean you can't eat two.That's... Exactly what that means. You reach for that second slice, and your hand is getting slapped.
But leaving aside English interpretations, why would you want to?
You can't increase a stat that's already getting increased by your race, and you can't decrease a stat that's getting decreased by your race. So that leaves... I actually can't come up with any instance where this benefits you.
Do you have a specific example?
For example you could take -4 to two stats and then boost two others by +2
I think you misinterpreted my example which I tried to explain better in my previous reply
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I'm still curious what your specific example is. Where can this idea benefit you?
Human-type:
STR +2, -4 = 08
DEX +2, -4 = 08
CON +0, +2 = 12
INT +0, +2 = 12
WIS +0, +0 = 10
CHA +0, +0 = 10
Will always be more terrible.
Other race-type (using Goblin):
STR +0, +2 = 12
DEX +2, -4 = 08
CON +2, +0 = 12
INT +0, +2 = 12
WIS -2, +0 = 08
CHA +2, -4 = 08
Will always be more terrible.
I'm still curious what your specific example is. Where can this idea benefit you?
Human-type:
STR +2, -4 = 08
DEX +2, -4 = 08
CON +0, +2 = 12
INT +0, +2 = 12
WIS +0, +0 = 10
CHA +0, +0 = 10Will always be more terrible.
Other race-type (using Goblin):
STR +0, +2 = 12
DEX +2, -4 = 08
CON +2, +0 = 12
INT +0, +2 = 12
WIS -2, +0 = 08
CHA +2, -4 = 08Will always be more terrible.
It can allow you to reallocate stats to things you would prefer your character to specialize in, regardless of if it's optimal or not, no?
I can't figure a way out, at least, which is why I keep asking for your specific idea.
For example gettinga goblin war cleric to 18 wis 16 str and 12 cha, dont think it's possible without doing that
The purpose of the Flaw is to allow any Ancestry to get an 18 in the Key Ability for any Class.
You can get an 18 WIS on a Goblin Cleric, but no, you could not also get a 16 STR, as you would have to spend your 1 Free Ancestry boost on WIS to be able to get to 18 WIS.
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I played with the numbers a bit, but I can see how the OP got to a 16/18 on a goblin, when using two rounds of voluntary flaws --
round 1: Double flaw Dex, Boost Wis
round 2: Double flaw CHA, Boost STr
(basically choose four from DEX, DEX, INT, CON, CHA, CHA) for your two sets of flaws. You can only double flaw the things the race gets the boost in. You can only stack the boost with the free boost in the ability that had a facial penalty.
I don't believe the rules support this, but I think this is what the OP was trying.
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The purpose of the Flaw is to allow any Ancestry to get an 18 in the Key Ability for any Class.
Is this stated somewhere?
You can get an 18 WIS on a Goblin Cleric, but no, you could not also get a 16 STR, as you would have to spend your 1 Free Ancestry boost on WIS to be able to get to 18 WIS.
A Goblin still can't get to 18 Wis because the flaw can't boost an ability that's already getting a boost.
EDIT: page 20, "when you gain multiple ability boosts at the same time, you must apply each one to a different score"
The best a Goblin Cleric could hope for would be 16 Wis.
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The purpose of the Flaw is to allow any Ancestry to get an 18 in the Key Ability for any Class.Is this stated somewhere?
You can get an 18 WIS on a Goblin Cleric, but no, you could not also get a 16 STR, as you would have to spend your 1 Free Ancestry boost on WIS to be able to get to 18 WIS.A Goblin still can't get to 18 Wis because the flaw can't boost an ability that's already getting a boost.
EDIT: page 20, "when you gain multiple ability boosts at the same time, you must apply each one to a different score"
The best a Goblin Cleric could hope for would be 16 Wis.
That is incorrect. The sidebar on page 26 includes an exception for attributes with a racial penalty.
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The purpose of the Flaw is to allow any Ancestry to get an 18 in the Key Ability for any Class.Is this stated somewhere?
You can get an 18 WIS on a Goblin Cleric, but no, you could not also get a 16 STR, as you would have to spend your 1 Free Ancestry boost on WIS to be able to get to 18 WIS.A Goblin still can't get to 18 Wis because the flaw can't boost an ability that's already getting a boost.
EDIT: page 20, "when you gain multiple ability boosts at the same time, you must apply each one to a different score"
The best a Goblin Cleric could hope for would be 16 Wis.
"Likewise, as an exception to the normal rules for ability boosts, you can apply two free ability boosts to an ability score receiving an ability flaw during this step;"
I played with the numbers a bit, but I can see how the OP got to a 16/18 on a goblin, when using two rounds of voluntary flaws --
round 1: Double flaw Dex, Boost Wis
round 2: Double flaw CHA, Boost STr(basically choose four from DEX, DEX, INT, CON, CHA, CHA) for your two sets of flaws. You can only double flaw the things the race gets the boost in. You can only stack the boost with the free boost in the ability that had a facial penalty.
I don't believe the rules support this, but I think this is what the OP was trying.
this is what i was trying to communicate. Thank you for helping me clarify it.
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The purpose of the Flaw is to allow any Ancestry to get an 18 in the Key Ability for any Class.Is this stated somewhere?
You can get an 18 WIS on a Goblin Cleric, but no, you could not also get a 16 STR, as you would have to spend your 1 Free Ancestry boost on WIS to be able to get to 18 WIS.A Goblin still can't get to 18 Wis because the flaw can't boost an ability that's already getting a boost.
EDIT: page 20, "when you gain multiple ability boosts at the same time, you must apply each one to a different score"
The best a Goblin Cleric could hope for would be 16 Wis.
The Optional Flaws rule explicitly mentions that doubling up the two free boosts onto a flaw is acceptable. Getting an 18 out of a flaw may not be the only purpose of that rule (getting a 16 out of a flawed non-key ability I'd argue is even more important), but it is one use that's explicitly called out as allowed