Conflicting language in GMG about available magic items and the settlement's level

[The Rot Grub]

In the GMG on page 132, under Marketplaces it says:

Quote:

"In a given settlement, a character can usually purchase any common item (including formulas, alchemical items, and magic items) that is of the same or lwer level than the settlement's. Usually fewer of the highest-level items are available--you can use Table 10-9: Party Treasure by Level on page 509 of the Core Rulebook as a guideline for how many of the highest-level items might be available, using the Permanent Items and Consumables entries for a level 1 lower than the settlement's actual level.

Then later on page 134, under Settlement State Block, the GMG says:

Quote:

In general, any common items with a level no higher than the settlement's level are available for purchase (though a character of a higher level can usually ferret out or custom order higher-level items).

The first quote says that, within a given settlement, the highest two levels "usually" have a specific list of items. The second quote says that "in general," "any" common items are available for purchase.

Which quote should we rely on?

[fujisempai]

I don't see a contradiction. the first is saying that there will likely be less in stock. the second is saying they will probably be there.

[Deadmanwalking]

Yeah, that sounds like there might only be one suit of Full Plate (at least for sale) in a level 2 Settlement, but there probably will be one.

[Themetricsystem]

Yeah, I agree that there isn't a hard-fast contradiction here but it is a bit confusing. Generally speaking, it seems like the intent is to indicate that the items in a level 11 settlement up to level 11 are all available but the level 10 & 11 items would have limited stock so you wouldn't as easily be able to simply "stock up" on them.

For example here in our level 11 settlement, you have an Alchemist who is looking to stock up on extra Bombs. They go out shopping and can buy as many Moderate Alchemist's Fire vials as they want but would probably only be able to access a limited number of Greater Alchemist's Fire vials. The same could be said about Oil of Keen Edges and +2 Weapon Potency Rune/Runestones.

[Zapp]

I don't find that advice particularly useful.

A player is going to want a specific item from the list of level N permanent items, or at most, an item from a very short list.

Am I to randomize which items (from the top level list) are in stock? Or just pick and choose as the GM?

Either method can result in one out of two outcomes:
1) the player gets what he wants
2) the player doesn't get what he want

In case #2 either dumb luck prevented the player from getting what he wanted and he'll just want to hit the next town (or try again next week etc)... or even worse, I look like a dick GM for actively choosing not to give him what he wants.

In short, why have a rule whose only outcome is potentially screwing the player over...?

He expected the item to be there (since it is within the level range) and yet it was not.

I'd far prefer not first promising something and then yanking it away at the last moment.

The problem is having a rule that says everything is available except when it is not. I far prefer a rule that says look: everything on this list is available, everything's not on the list isn't.

That is - make the rule positive, not negative.

I can't wait for a PF2-legit random generator of what's available (with the risk of not getting an item within your level range offset by the chance of getting an item, perhaps a formula, at level N+1)...

...but since we don't have that yet I far prefer the much simpler rule:

Every item up to the settlement's level is available (in reasonable quantities). Every item above the settlement's level is not available full stop.

My 2 cents

[Rysky]

Did the player specifically ask for that item to be there and you chose not to put it there?

Then yeah that’s on you.

If you made the list beforehand/the player didn’t ask/it was randomized, then it’s not. These are rules for making settlements, not for making each character’s personal shopping list.

[Kennethray]

The only way you could sound like a d gm is if you set the expectation that they can have whatever they want up to a level. If on the other hand you say that you are following this rule (whatever rule that might be) for settlements before they even get there then it should be expected. You want advice, figure out how as a gm you want to do it and the make sure you relay it to the players.

[Zapp]

Rysky wrote:

Did the player specifically ask for that item to be there and you chose not to put it there?

Then yeah that’s on you.

If you made the list beforehand/the player didn’t ask/it was randomized, then it’s not. These are rules for making settlements, not for making each character’s personal shopping list.

(You didn't quote me so perhaps the fact your post was just below mine was just coincidence. If so, please disregard)

We are in agreement.

I specifically made a point of separating between
a) using the CRB list (of Permanent Level 7 items, say) which you cross things off of as needed
and
b) creating a separate list showing the stock of "The Griffon's Caducetorium" (name just Googled)

A is not ideal. The player sees things go away. A is, in fact, what I'm arguing against.

B would be good. The player sees things appear. Problem is, I'm not aware of any PF2-compatible magic shoppe generators. (And the GM manually stocking several shoppes is, in my opinion, too much work with too little payback.)

Cheers

[Rysky]

I was responding to you, so to respond to you here, for B) YOU are the magic shoppe generator. You’re not ever going to have everything done for you. It’s one of the basics of GMing, if you don’t like doing it (which is what I’m perceiving from your posts in honesty) then I’d take a break for awhile.

A) also isn’t that bad honestly.

[Rysky]

I don’t really know why I bother since your interactions always devolve like this when people try to respond to your posts.

[Squiggit]

If you don't want to generate your own magic treasure lists and don't want to feel like you're stiffing your player, you could always just... let the player buy what they want, maybe up to settlement level at least.

Not a solution for everyone, obviously, but seems like it might work in this situation.

[Franz Lunzer]

I'd suggest making a listing of uncommon items a given shop the PC's visit is carrying.
And when they shop there, just note how many items of level X they purchase. You can set a limit of (say) 4 items of level X = city level, 10 items of level X-1. If you want. I wouldn't limit items of 2 levels below the city level.