( Wraith-Sting Rifle)Any method to add damage die?

[Zwordsman]

Howdy howdy.
So, instead of necroing a thread from 2 years ago or so. I'll start a new one.

Wraith-Sting Rifle. This does "-" damage. This means that it does no damage at all, right? It won't even apply weapon Specializations to it yes? Nor will it add damages from class effects either right? Since all of those effects say "add to damage' not "deals xyz damage"
If it was a D0 it would still add stuff though.

So.. Does anyone know of any method (besides home brew asking a DM) to get some damage on this weapon?

One of the biggest reasons is.. it wont' work with biohacks without damage.
"If you must attempt an attack roll with a biohack and your attack hits but deals no damage (normally as a result of damage reduction or an ability such as the vanguard’s mitigate), the biohack is expended but the target is not affected by it. "
So the wraith sting can not be used to offensively inject biohacks. Well maybe if you load it with the right drug ( the nonlethal one) that isn't made via the theorom (which prevents using with biohacks).

This also means you can not apply biohacks to your allies either. If you're within 60 feet you could if they are Attuned. but outside of that it would be an attack roll.

Lastly this also means it won't work with Tranq Dart Theorom--which is labeled as a biohack. Which, arguably, this is ~the~ weapon that you would want to use it with.

So... anyone know any methods for this situation? because it does really feel sad that they're the only class that uses weapons that can't benefit from a sniper weapon at all.
I'm hoping there is some sorta damage die replacement trick, class ability or fusion...

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If homebrew is the only method. What damage die would you think be approriate--
While retaining Subtle? d4? d6? (low for sniper rifles but in exchange hard to track)
While removing Subtle? (D8? d10? )
Shouldn't really be balanced for biohackers but against other snipers. Also it has to be loaded every round...
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I do hope they'll make an Injection Sniper later.

[Ascalaphus]

I think they need to tidy up some of the language around needing to do damage to inject stuff like biohacks. Maybe a "if the injection weapon naturally deals no damage, you don't need to do damage to deliver the biohack" clause of some kind.

I think that's a better solution than trying to make this weapon do what it was clearly NOT supposed to: do damage.

[Nathan Monson]

if this is for a home game, just talk to your GM; it seems very reasonable to allow this weapon to function with biohacks despite not working by RAW. if it is for a society game, then make an FAQ request, and in the meantime use another Injection weapon or try and convince your table GM that it works by RAI.
The Painful Injection Theorum might be a way to deal damage, since it triggers when you Hit the target.

[Pantshandshake]

Can you do ‘additional damage’ when your initial damage is 0? I’d probably classify Painful Injection as a rider that also doesn’t work if you didn’t do damage in the first place.

Also it being a rider and not damage from the weapon, I don’t think it would qualify to transmit further rider effects.

Sidenote: Does anyone take Painful Injection? Seems like it caps out at +9 damage when you max a stat, which doesn’t really seem worth it. I’ve never had a Biohacker in my group, though, it is very possible I just don’t know how good this theorem is.

[HammerJack]

It's the same amount of extra damage as Melee Striker is for a soldier. I don't see a lot of people refusing to take that, because of it being a low percentage increase to damage at level 20.

[Pantshandshake]

I mean, I took Melee Striker not because of the extra damage, but because it was the least anemic choice of gear boost, pre-feat boosts.

Though it does seem like Biohackers get more theorem slots than soldiers get gear boosts. Good for them, little bit a free damage and all.

[Nathan Monson]

Pantshandshake wrote:

Can you do ‘additional damage’ when your initial damage is 0? I’d probably classify Painful Injection as a rider that also doesn’t work if you didn’t do damage in the first place.

Also it being a rider and not damage from the weapon, I don’t think it would qualify to transmit further rider effects.

Sidenote: Does anyone take Painful Injection? Seems like it caps out at +9 damage when you max a stat, which doesn’t really seem worth it. I’ve never had a Biohacker in my group, though, it is very possible I just don’t know how good this theorem is.

I think RAI, Painful Injection would not work, but the Wraith sting rifle could deliver biohacks, because that just makes sense

RAW, however, disqualifies the Wraith sting rifle, but I don't see why you cant add things to zero; so there is definitely an argument to be made for Painful injection.

[Metaphysician]

Nathan Monson wrote:

Pantshandshake wrote:

Can you do ‘additional damage’ when your initial damage is 0? I’d probably classify Painful Injection as a rider that also doesn’t work if you didn’t do damage in the first place.

Also it being a rider and not damage from the weapon, I don’t think it would qualify to transmit further rider effects.

Sidenote: Does anyone take Painful Injection? Seems like it caps out at +9 damage when you max a stat, which doesn’t really seem worth it. I’ve never had a Biohacker in my group, though, it is very possible I just don’t know how good this theorem is.

I think RAI, Painful Injection would not work, but the Wraith sting rifle could deliver biohacks, because that just makes sense

RAW, however, disqualifies the Wraith sting rifle, but I don't see why you cant add things to zero; so there is definitely an argument to be made for Painful injection.

Problem: the Wraith Sting rifle *doesn't* do 0 damage. It has a damage stat of "-", which is not the same. You can add to 0, but you can't add to a number that doesn't exist in the first place.

Also, yes, the obvious intent is that this weapon work with biohacks and such. If your GM complains, you have a bad GM.