A Whip “True Strike” Reposition Magus

[CopperWyrm]

So recently I have seen a few posts about how to make a magus that isn’t just “shocking grasp everything that moves”.

I had a few ideas, particularly regarding the reposition maneuver and it's feat chain, when combined with the (scorpion) whip, spire defender archetype and spell dancer archetype.

When Reposition is combined with “true strike” spell combat, you’re talking about being able to do ridiculous antics, like pushing people off cliffs, into spell effects, up onto a ledge and into buildings, moving allies or even just tossing enemies 20 feet into the air for shits and giggles. Keep in mind, you can move someone back and forth, in and out of someone’s reach, potentially triggering multiple attacks of opportunity.

Another key part of this strategy would be to invest in a “anchoring” weapon, so you can keep people in dangerous positions once you force them there. You also better have another caster with good battlefield control spells. Forcibly dunking someone into good spell effects multiple times in a single round could get NASTY.

Anyway, here are the stats:

Male Elf Magus (Spire Defender + Spell Dancer)
NG

Starting Stats: (25 point buy. These stats can vary considerably though without huge problems.)
STR 7
DEX 18--->20
CON 14--->12
INT 14--->16
WIS 12
CHA 10

Race Traits:
-Elven Immunities
-Elven Magic
-Arcane Focus
-Illustrious Urbanite
(Probably Conjuration. I know, I know, spell focus in conjunction isn’t the best because there aren’t as many saving throws involved, but I plan on maybe using Mudball, so I figure it’s alright. Plus, it’s free and flavorful.)

Traits:
-Two-World Magic (Touch Of Fatigue)
(Because spell-strike.)
-Prehensile Whip
(Because Awesome.)

Feats + Magus Arcana:
(Elf Favoured Class Bonus included, which gives more Magus Arcana. Feats given by class are also noted.)

LEVEL ONE
Bonus Feat: Combat Expertise
Bonus Feat: Dodge
Specific Exotic Weapon Proficiency: Whip (Which confers proficiency with Scorpion Whips)
Feat 1: Weapon Finesse
LEVEL TWO

LEVEL THREE
Feat 2: Improved Reposition
Magus Arcana: Wand Wielder (for True Strike wands)
LEVEL FOUR

LEVEL FIVE
Feat 3: Tactical Reposition
LEVEL SIX
Magus Arcana: Spell Shield
Fav. C Magus Arcana: Arcane Accuracy
LEVEL SEVEN
Feat 4: Quick Reposition
LEVEL EIGHT

LEVEL NINE
Feat 5: Greater Reposition
Magnus Arcana: Accurate Strike

The important levels would be 3, 5 and 7. Level 3 is when you can use wands of true strike, although a staff that has true strike might also be good. Level 5 is when you can start repositioning people into hazards. Level 7 is when the reposition can be part of spell combat.

Originally I planned on getting Eldritch Heritage at level 3, but I found I had to sacrifice too much to get it.

Also, unsure about getting Spell Shield at level six. It is far more versatile than a regular shield spell and much more powerful at high levels when your INT score will be greater than +4, but I still have my doubts. BUT, more importantly, the Magic Trick (Shield) feat is interesting, especially the Instant Cover part of it, which is very good on a magus.

If I could spare the feat, Tumultuous Spell would also be hilarious when combined with spellstrike, but that is low priority, sadly. However, if tumultuous spell’s random movement is three dimensional, that could be more enticing. Of course, most stuff in this system is assumed to be two dimensional but just thought I’d bring it up?

Any advice?

[Firebug]

So maybe I missed it, but where in (greater) reposition does it say that it provokes multiple times? Movement (in general) only provokes once, even if you double move and just run circles around someone... Wall of Fire/similar effects? Sure, if you have the Tactical Reposition Feat it has a 'passing through' clause. I'd probably also veto straight up into the air as it is not a trap or hazardous area.

Anchoring basically throws away your weapon, since you can't continue to attack with it. That said, increase the hardness otherwise you might lose it. The only option for anchored enemies out of melee range is to destroy your weapon.
And probably fit in Quick Draw if you want to use this tactic.

Perhaps most importantly, how are you using Reposition with a weapon without something like Serpent Lash/Greater? Turns out, I found the answer while writing this response, in an official blog post from 2011... Since both of Serpent Lash's sources were published before the blog post, I guess it'll never get errata. Basically, if the weapon has the trip special quality, it can be used to reposition.

Part of the problem with Spell Shield is that it is an Immediate Action (and costs arcane pool). At higher levels when the bonus is better than the Shield Spell you probably want to use Arcane Accuracy, Accurate Strike, Arcane Strike, Quicken Spell, Spell Dance (or any of the spell-likes from Spell Dance, each a separate Swift Action), Spring Loaded Wrist Sheathes, Forceful Strike, etc. Though Magic Trick(Shield): Instant Cover has the same issue (Immediate Action, turns off Shield). The fact that Magic Trick turns off your Shield Spell after the current creature's turn is often overlooked. The Magus Arcana is also not a force effect (incorporeals can ignore) nor does it block magic missiles. Basically, either cast it from slots and keep it up most of the adventuring day, or burn through wand charges as part of door protocol.

On the Magus Arcana choices note: Pick Arcane Accuracy or Accurate Strike, you don't need both. They are both swift actions so you cannot (typically) use them at the same time.

Tumultuous Spell sounds interesting on paper, but since the movement is random it has a pretty good chance of backfiring on you since it seems you are going more battlefield control. I would also say that it moves the target in 2D.

You can't take a Favored Class Bonus to something until you have that something. Essentially, you can't take the elf FCB of 1/6th Magus Arcana until level 3. I think there are some FAQs that are close to it, and there is a forum post by a Dev that explicitly says so.

I dislike Wand Wielder in general, because your hand is not free (its holding a wand) so how do you actually use spell combat? I know the intention is to allow it, but it rubs me the wrong way.

[avr]

Quick reposition requires BAB +6. To get it at level 7 you need to get the maneuver mastery arcana.

Spell dancer is flavourful but not actually very good. Losing the ability to enhance your weapon via arcane pool is a big loss. Just take spire defender IMO, which also leaves you the L5 bonus feat.

[CopperWyrm]

Thanks for the help.

I think Firebug is right about the AoO thing, although the feat is still powerful.

I'll change my 6th level Magus Arcana to Maneuver Mastery to qualify for the reposition feats. However, as a note, the magic trick (shield) feat's weaknesses regarding the shield spell ending can be overcome by simply having multiple shield spells active, which the magus is uniquely capable of achieving with spell combat. However, this build isn't that well suited to such antics.

Having an anchoring weapon might be a bad idea now that you mention it.

I think it might be a good idea to ditch Spell Dancer. I think I should take Light Armor Proficiency, although I'm not sure.

In terms of wand wielder, there may be a solution, although it isn't exactly RAI either: You can still have a free hand, because you don't actually have to hold the wand.

This rule text on wands says that "To activate a wand, a character must hold it in hand (or whatever passes for a hand, for non-humanoid creatures) and point it in the general direction of the target or area."

Wand Wielder says that you "can activate a wand or staff in place of casting a spell when using spell combat."

So, is it possible that Wand Wielder bypasses the requirement to hold it?

[avr]

I think the RAI with wand wielder is that your offhand uses the wand/staff rather than wiggling your fingers to cast the spell.

Light armor proficiency would be nice but not absolutely necessary. Mage armor is a thing, and your Dex is going to get too high for a mithral chain shirt eventually.

[CopperWyrm]

I know that the RAI is to just hold the wand, but my idea provides an alternate option if someone gets fussy about the technicalities of you not having a free hand.

I agree that light armor isn't vital. That said, mage armor isn't on the magus spell list. I know that there are ways around this, like buying wands for other people to use, but I'd prefer not to.

There's a few weak light armors that have no arcane spell failure chance and no armor check penalty. I'll probably use those.

Maybe I will actually spend the 5th level feat on Magic Trick (Shield), since it's caught my eye recently and I love the flavour of it. It would be the sort of thing to use in emergencies, when someone gets too close.

[avr]

If you feel like living dangerously - darkleaf cloth studded leather has +3 armor bonus base, max dex +7, no ACP, just 5% ASF, and wands and staves ignore ASF anyway.

Or you could spend that feat, sure.

[CopperWyrm]

Earlier you said that the "Maneuver Mastery" would waive the BAB requirement for Quick Reposition, but I don't see how that would work by RAW, although it is a reasonable house rule.

[Slyme]

A couple thoughts that popped into my head when reading this.

You might be able to pull off some fun shenanigans with wands by taking 2 levels of Vigilante with either the Cabalist or Warlock archetypes and grabbing Tattoo Chamber as your level 2 vigilante talent.

The Cabalist gives you access to the Witch spell list, which has Mage Armor, and the Warlock gives you access to the Wizard/Sorcerer spell list, which also gives you mage armor...both give you a few other extra spell options the Magus normally misses out on.

A Warlock/Magus would make an interesting combination...you should be able to do spellstrike and spell combat using Mystic bolts (not what you want for this build, but still some interesting interactions there)

Outside of the multiclass dip, you could always invest in Bracers of Armor if you need a bump in AC, or invest in Use Magic Device to activate your wands of mage armor.

[avr]

CopperWyrm wrote:

Earlier you said that the "Maneuver Mastery" would waive the BAB requirement for Quick Reposition, but I don't see how that would work by RAW, although it is a reasonable house rule.

The wording isn't as favorable as I remembered, but quick reposition can only be performed while doing the reposition maneuver (by definition), and maneuver mastery allows you to treat your level as your BAB when performing the associated maneuver.

[Kurald Galain]

Specific Trumps General. The wand wielder arcana lets you use spell combat with a wand, because the arcana specifically says so. That means it overrides the general rule on spell combat that it requires a free hand.

Overall, nice build concept! Keep in mind that, with zero feat investment, you can also do the occasional Trip, Disarm, or Steal with your whip. True Strike means it'll probably connect.

If you want Mage Armor, no need to dip: just use the spell blending arcana (or, at lower levels, scrolls or a wand); and rather than dipping for tattoo chamber, invest in a glove of storing. A decent dip for this build is monk with the Maneuver Master archetype.

And yeah, spell dancer isn't great. For that matter, neither is spire defender. I would go for Bladebound (a whip is a one-handed slashing weapon) and just spend a feat on EWP; or maybe Eldritch Scion with the bloodline that increases your reach (aberrant or abyssal). HTH!

(edit) Oh, and you don't need to spend a trait on Touch Of Fatigue because Arcane Mark is already on your list. That's the iconic Zorro move, after all.

[CopperWyrm]

Thanks! I definitely intend to have variation with the combat maneuvers I use, I mainly mentioned the Reposition maneuver because it is rarely a maneuver that builds are based on.

But yeah, throughout the levels I will be using a variety of combat maneuvers according to the situation. Especially at lower levels, since until I get "Quick Reposition", I won't be able to have Reposition be part of spell combat. At least not in the same round: I would have to cast true strike as my last action and then repostion as a standard action on the following turn.

At lower levels, I think Trip will probably come up the most.

I thought about Touch Of Fatigue when originally making this first version of this build: I really don't like to take the "easy" path for making optimized characters. I didn't know the developers intended for cantrips to work with spellstrike and using a harmless cantrip seemed off. So I figured that to make things interesting I should at least invest a trait to get something that made a bit more sense.

I don't think it's that bad, since I don't think I'll be using cantrips on anything that has major spell resistance. That said, I might want to have magical lineage anyway, as I've been looking at Authoritative spell and it looks pretty good.

[Ferious Thune]

For Trip, consider a wand of blade lash. It's a +10 instead of a +20, but the trip attempt is part of the spell, leaving you with your full round of attacks once the enemy is prone. Plus, it gives you a 20 foot reach for the trip attempt, which isn't as great for a whip user (edit: because it's not altering your reach, just letting you trip up to 20 feet away, so it doesn't stack with the whip's reach), but is still an improvement if you don't have something else increasing your reach.

I went the touch of fatigue route on my trip magus, but after the first few levels it may as well be arcane mark, because even with a high INT, everything makes the saving throw.