juggler archetype - can you catch a missed RETURNING throwing weapon?

[krobrina]

Extinction curse has the juggler at, which allows you catch a missed throwing weapon.

What if the weapon has the returning property?

Which takes priority?

Do you roll to wrestle the weapon?

[graystone]

krobrina wrote:

Extinction curse has the juggler at, which allows you catch a missed throwing weapon.

What if the weapon has the returning property?

Which takes priority?

Do you roll to wrestle the weapon?

Are you talking about REFLEXIVE CATCH? If so it's a reaction that happens before the strike is complete.

Returning: "it flies back to your hand after the Strike is complete". The reaction interrupts this much like Nimble Dodge can turn a hit with a strike into a miss, you can turn a miss and return into a miss and catch.

[krobrina]

Yes to REFLEXIVE CATCH.

Odd little feat to have, what with them doing everythng they can to avoid PCs losing gear. Rust Monsters and Sunder gone and Disarm nerfed into the ground.

Being able to take an action to resummon your weapon might be an option. That would allow it to return from being juggled, but I'd not allow that if the acrobat was grabbing it on purpose or had stuffed it into their bag of weasels.

[graystone]

krobrina wrote:

Being able to take an action to resummon your weapon might be an option.

#1 nothing about the weapon says it teleports: it "flies back". Once it's in someone elses possession, it becomes an attended object and it's no longer the original person's possession. IMO, they could do nothing other than take it back by force. For instance, if someone disarmed a person and then grabbed the weapon, the disarmed person couldn't use Returning on it.

Secondly, the weapon only returns "When you make a thrown Strike with this weapon": after it's caught, that strike ended and return only works again once someone uses it to do a thrown strike.

krobrina wrote:

Odd little feat to have, what with them doing everythng they can to avoid PCs losing gear.

The archetype also allows you to wield 2 weapons and have a free hand so it's all about doing unusual things. Plus archetypes are class feats so they are about as strong as feats get. You also have to remember that the archetype is uncommon with NO current way to access it beyond DM fiat. As such, it's up to the DM to figure out if it's too strong. Even the PC IN that AP have no access granted to the archetypes or circus weapon in it.

[krobrina]

I'm ok with the mechanics and interpretation of this rule. It's indeed no longer "your" weapon once the acrobat grabs it (unless it needs investing, or it's intelligent).

I was envisaging it flying back. It is the way they work on the TV, after all, and is the reason why I said it only works for juggling otherwise there might be wrestling involved.

Traditionally in other media, returning weapons have usually had some way of being summoned home if the user didn't. Mind you, those could all have been artifacts or invested. I could accept being able to call your weapon back if it was invested, and then it would just fire up its magic jet engine and zoom back to your hand.

Juggler is a very odd archetype.

[PossibleCabbage]

If a PC gets their weapon snagged by an antagonist juggler, the PC gets their weapon back by incapacitating (e.g. killing) the antagonist and taking all the neat stuff they have on them, in the grand tradition of PCs.

If a PC juggler snags a weapon that an antagonist throws, then they get to keep it same as if they dispatched the antagonist and got to loot their stuff.

The only potential trouble area is if you have an antagonist juggler who steals the PC's thrown weapon and then runs away, or if a PC juggler gets a weapon way above the wealth curve because an antagonist throws it at them and the PC runs away. Both of these are in the control of the GM to prevent.

[Aratorin]

I mean if you had a Thrown weapon with fancy Runes other than returning, the enemy could always just pick it up after you threw it anyway, so it's not that big a deal.

[beowulf99]

I agree with graystone here. Interrupting the attack with Reactive catch would stop the strike before returning had a chance to happen. It wouldn't become an "unattended object" per se, as the catching person would be attending it, but it would be in their possession which would trump the returning aspect of the weapon. This differs from the Monk's Deflect Arrow feat, as that simply makes the attack miss which would allow such a weapon to return to the thrower.

Note that returning is not an invested or activated property, and therefore the catching individual could throw the weapon back at the owner, and benefit from returning without having to invest or activate the weapon. Actually a neat, if a bit niche, option for a crusty juggler.

If however the weapon had returning through say the Champion's Blade Ally ability or some similar ability, the weapon would lose the Returning property as it only functions when in the Champion's hand.