Combat Grab states
"You swipe at your opponent and grab at them. Make a melee Strike while keeping one hand free. If the Strike hits, you grab the target using your free hand. The creature remains grabbed until the end of your next turn or until it Escapes, whichever comes first."
Does this mean first you deal damage to the opponent with your strike then with your free hand you grapple them basically?
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Combat Grab states
"You swipe at your opponent and grab at them. Make a melee Strike while keeping one hand free. If the Strike hits, you grab the target using your free hand. The creature remains grabbed until the end of your next turn or until it Escapes, whichever comes first."
Does this mean first you deal damage to the opponent with your strike then with your free hand you grapple them basically?
Yes, that is exactly right. Your successful strike also results in a successful grab.
Sounds like a legit feat, strictly superior to just striking with no real downside.
The only real downsides are needing a free hand, and the opportunity cost if not using some other fighter feat. (Barring really specific concerns, like if an enemy was dangerous to touch and grabbing them would hurt you).
It is definitely a solid feat that can make for a really "sticky" fighter who is very good at keeping a target off their squishier allies, though.
Sounds like a legit feat, strictly superior to just striking with no real downside.
It has the Press trait, so whatever Strike you're making with it will always suffer from MAP.
The downside is that you can't use it while dual-wielding (maybe could pull it off as a Juggler though) or using a 2hander.
Ya seems like a good second action
Ah, yes, I completely forgot to mention that one, but Press is very important. Still, if you're going to fight with a free hand, it is very solid, and fighters have the accuracy to land their 2nd attack, especially if they use an agile weapon.
I hate press attacks an will rarely use them.
I much prefer to move, strike, move and waste the enemy's actions as it tries to get to me. For melee enemies, it's basically a debuff that stacks with everything.
I hate press attacks an will rarely use them.
I much prefer to move, strike, move and waste the enemy's actions as it tries to get to me. For melee enemies, it's basically a debuff that stacks with everything.
What do you do if you start your turn in melee with an enemy? Wouldn't it make sense to Strike, Strike(Press), Move?
Still waste their action and you got two strikes in.
That would not work so well with this particular Press action.
That would not work so well with this particular Press action.
True, I'm just asking generally
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I hate press attacks an will rarely use them.
I much prefer to move, strike, move and waste the enemy's actions as it tries to get to me. For melee enemies, it's basically a debuff that stacks with everything.
What do you do if you start your turn in melee with an enemy? Wouldn't it make sense to Strike, Strike(Press), Move?
Still waste their action and you got two strikes in.
Can't say I've ever ended up in that situation.
Every time I ended my turn next to an enemy in our earlier games, I got dropped within a round. Everyone I play with is solidly convinced that it's a stupidly wasteful thing to do in 2e.
I'd probably invest in a feat that was more consistently useful, and not situationally useful only in an ambush-type scenario.
Interesting, what other level 1 or 2 fighter control feats do you like?
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I hate press attacks an will rarely use them.
I much prefer to move, strike, move and waste the enemy's actions as it tries to get to me. For melee enemies, it's basically a debuff that stacks with everything.
What do you do if you start your turn in melee with an enemy? Wouldn't it make sense to Strike, Strike(Press), Move?
Still waste their action and you got two strikes in.
Can't say I've ever ended up in that situation.
Every time I ended my turn next to an enemy in our earlier games...
No one asked where you ENDED your turn, it was mentioned where you STARTED your turn.
You know, if you move-strike-move, and then the enemy moves up to you and hits you, now its your turn again. You are already adjacent, what do you do?
I hate press attacks an will rarely use them.
I much prefer to move, strike, move and waste the enemy's actions as it tries to get to me. For melee enemies, it's basically a debuff that stacks with everything.
What do you do if you start your turn in melee with an enemy? Wouldn't it make sense to Strike, Strike(Press), Move?
Still waste their action and you got two strikes in.
Can't say I've ever ended up in that situation.
Every time I ended my turn next to an enemy in our earlier games...
No one asked where you ENDED your turn, it was mentioned where you STARTED your turn.
You know, if you move-strike-move, and then the enemy moves up to you and hits you, now its your turn again. You are already adjacent, what do you do?
Also, the two most effective Fighter abilities are Double Slice and Power Attack. If you're only using 1 basic strike per turn, you are really wasting Fighter potential.
Even sword and board would move, strike, raise shield.
If you are flanking, and wielding an agile weapon. A Fighter's second attack only has a -2 compared to a non-Fighter's first attack because of their higher proficiency.
To be fair, Dork is playing a monk, and they really are meant to hit and run. Fighters should be able to stand and bang a little better though. But how important ending your turn next to a monster is probably depends on the relative level of the monster. The higher your level edge, the better your odds of landing iteratives are, and therefore the better served you may be hanging out.
Well, I guess that's why I play a monk. :P
EDIT: Ninja'd! Captain Morgan must be a monk too. XD
Interesting, what other level 1 or 2 fighter control feats do you like?
Depends on the character, but most likely a Class Dedication.
To be fair, Dork is playing a monk, and they really are meant to hit and run. Fighters should be able to stand and bang a little better though. But how important ending your turn next to a monster is probably depends on the relative level of the monster. The higher your level edge, the better your odds of landing iteratives are, and therefore the better served you may be hanging out.
Was just beginning to question myself about the moves, because in my experience without speed difference moving away (from non-bosses) does not make much sense as it will usually only waste the worst / most improbable enemy attack (-8 or -10). Monk +speed makes sense though.
To be fair, Dork is playing a monk, and they really are meant to hit and run. Fighters should be able to stand and bang a little better though. But how important ending your turn next to a monster is probably depends on the relative level of the monster. The higher your level edge, the better your odds of landing iteratives are, and therefore the better served you may be hanging out.
Not sure I agree that the class with the second highest AC potential is "really meant" to hit and run. Depends on your build really.
To be fair, Dork is playing a monk, and they really are meant to hit and run. Fighters should be able to stand and bang a little better though. But how important ending your turn next to a monster is probably depends on the relative level of the monster. The higher your level edge, the better your odds of landing iteratives are, and therefore the better served you may be hanging out.Not sure I agree that the class with the second highest AC potential is "really meant" to hit and run. Depends on your build really.
I'm curious how they have the 2nd highest AC potential? The best modifier they can get is +34 (+28 Legendary +6 DEX), or 35 in Crane Stance. Yes they can get higher than that for specific attacks and circumstances, but not as a base.
Fighters and Paladins can both exceed that, and Alchemists, Barbarians, Rangers and Rogues all tie that.
Because of the way they did armor, there are really only 4 tiers of AC.
Champion
Anyone who can master heavy armor
Light/Medium Armor Masters/Unarmored Legends
Everyone Else
Not being able to get potency runes is a pretty severe limitation to unarmored.
What am I missing?
You seem to be missing runes on explorer clothing (or bracers), and shields, if you're trying to measure how high monk AC can go.
You seem to be missing runes on explorer clothing (or bracers), and shields, if you're trying to measure how high monk AC can go.
Hmm.. you're right, +3 Explorers clothing would get you a +8 instead of the +6 for DEX. I had overlooked that, as the DEX cap on Explorers clothing was an immediate turn off for me, so I forgot about them.
Now if Runescarred let you etch potency runes on your body, that would be sweet.
The DEX limit of explorer clothing or bracers is also totally meaningless to the Mountain Stance crowd.
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Monk
20 lvl
8 prof
6 (+4 Status Bonus Mountain Stance/Mountain Stronghold/Mountain Quake w/ +2 dex)
3 Item bonus from Runed Explorer's clothing
2 circumstance from shield
39 AC, can hit 41 while moving with guarded movement (i think, it's circumstance so doesn't stack with shield)
Champion
20 lvl
8 prof
6 plate
3 item bonus
2 shield
39 AC.
Fighter
20 lvl
6 prof
6 plate
3 item
2 shield
37 AC
Also any of these if using a tower shield could technically raise their AC, but it's the same amount so doesn't change things.
The tiers are
Monk/Champ
Fighter
Light/Medium Masters
Everyone Else.
Unless I'm missing something that buffs Champions they have the exact same base AC, and Fighters are a tier below both. And a Monk without armor only loses 3 AC as opposed to losing 9 like the others, better hope the enemy only attacks while you're wearing it and you never have to swim anywhere during a fight.
A non-mountain stance monk would just be 1 less than this and still higher than a Fighter.
20
8
5 dex
3 item from armor
2 circumstance from shield
38
Still better than a Fighter.
What about no armor max Dex?
20
8
7 24 dex (apex item)
2 shield
37
So a naked monk that focused dex has the same AC as a fighter in full plate, without taking a single feat to raise their ac.
Also lower levels. My level 5 monk has better ac then our medium armor champion, for the next two levels, unless he uses his shield. Besides that if all your doing is hit and run, I feel bad for your casters. If I don't help hold the line the sorcerer and bard go down in a heart beat.
As for the auto grapple attacks, the barbarian one is great for thrashing. Iruxi Dragon barb that latches on with a bite and does deathrolls, hope to play that someday.