|
You can Cast a Spell from a staff only if you have that spell on your spell list, are able to cast spells of the appropriate level, and expend a number of charges from the staff equal to the spell’s level.
If you are a spellcaster base class and have the spells on your appropriate class list, it seems pretty straight forward (#2).
However, since you threw in Multiclass Dedication, it looks like you're trying to figure out if you can cross class spells from staves of levels higher than you can in the respective discipline (arcane mcd cleric trying to cast heal off of a staff when they only have access to divine cantrips, for example). I don't know the answer. I would hedge toward an interpretation of "you need a spell slot of the appropriate level and spell list," but it doesn't say that explicitly.
|
|
I haven't look past the first few staves. Is there one with arcane exclusive and divine exclusive spells both on the staff?
If they exist, one might interpret that as you can only use the spells on the staff you qualify to use.
You'll probably get a better set of responses and more visibility to the designers if you post in PF2 Rules rather than the PFS forum. This isn't really a PFS specific situation.
However, the "why the two requirements" seems obvious to me. I need a 2nd level spell slot naturally to qualify to cast a 2nd level spell off of the staff AND that spell has to be one I could, if I knew it, cast from the tradition I'm using without the staff.
|
|
That will happen over there if you mention PFS, but you're not actually asking about a PFS rule (school training, application of downtime, legality of options, etc).
Anyhow, the benefit of staves is economy. Take a level 1 wand of heal and a staff of healing. A wand of 1st level heal costs 60 gp. A staff of healing costs 90 gp and also gives your natively cast heals a +1 bonus. By 3rd level you're casting 2 heals with no expenditure of resources, 120 gp worth of wands. By 5th level 180 gp worth of wands.
|
Unfortunate that is. That is the same response you get on the rules forum :)Campaign Leadership never answers rules questions, and they've actually explicitly requested that rules questions be posted in the Rules Questions Forum.
All you'll get here is "How I'd run it at my table".
Difference being that the responses you've read over in the Rules Forum aren't coming from Paizo.
Does Paizo still say they will answer questions on some twitch show? Or do we need to wait until they post a clarification somewhere (and where would that be)?
The purpose of the Rules Questions Forum is to ask questions and get them answered. I have been involved in countless FAQ requests over there, so I know the process works.
Right now things are probably delayed because they are still shortstaffed and catching up on other projects. Have to pay the bills first, otherwise there will be nobody available to answer FAQs.
|
|
Wow. No. Nothing like that.
HERE is the post by John Compton (at the time he was a member of Campaign Leadership) explaining how "badly written rules" are handled in Society. This is where he advises that rules questions be posted in the Rules Questions Forum.
That's the whole purpose of the Rules Questions Forum.
Nobody who works on the Society side is a Designer. Designers are the ones who issue answers to rules questions. While sometimes a Designer will answer a question over in the Rules Questions Forum, they ideally want to consolidate answers into the FAQ so people don't have to dig through forum posts looking for answers.
The purpose of this forum is to discuss aspects exclusive to Organized Play. Chronicles, storylines, Fame, Reputation, etc. Things that can't go in other forums. Leadership will answer those questions here. But a rules question is no more their purview than someone from the rules team answering a Society question. Different jobs.
Venture-Lieutenant, Netherlands—Leiden
|
@Garulo: sadly, you're mostly correct for how slow the timeline is for getting things clarified. So in the short run, you have the following options:
* Use the option, but at the risk that it doesn't work at every table. Worst case, it doesn't work on a lot of tables.
* Don't use the option, use something else that isn't as ambiguous. You don't get to use your dream option, but you also don't get into arguments.
|
|
Reading this discussion has me confused.
Garulo, what staff you are looking to use and what classes are you looking to play?
He is a wizard or sorcerer with multiclass cleric dedication (2nd level feat) who wants to use a Level 12 Staff of Healing to cast 5th level breath of life with his 5th level arcane slots, which might be how it's supposed to work but I have might doubts, but my bigger question is how he has an 11th or 12th level PFS(2) character to be having his quandry.
|
He is a wizard or sorcerer with multiclass cleric dedication (2nd level feat) who wants to use a Level 12 Staff of Healing to cast 5th level breath of life with his 5th level arcane slots, which might be how it's supposed to work but I have might doubts, but my bigger question is how he has an 11th or 12th level PFS(2) character to be having his quandry.Reading this discussion has me confused.
Garulo, what staff you are looking to use and what classes are you looking to play?
As to the how there could be 12th level PFS2e legal character now, I will assume the question is intended for discussion so a decision is not made that ultimately useless.
Now that I have sense of what is happening this is what I see reading the rules.
A staff gains charges when someone prepares it for the day. The person who prepared a staff can expend the charges to cast spells from it. You can Cast a Spell from a staff only if you have that spell on your spell list, are able to cast spells of the appropriate level, and expend a number of charges from the staff equal to the spell’s level.
So you have to have at least one spell in the staff on your spell list and able to cast spells of the appropriate spell level.
During your daily preparations, you can prepare a staff to add charges to it for free. When you do so, that staff gains a number of charges equal to the highest-level spell slot you have. You don’t need to expend any spells to add charges in this way. No one can prepare more than one staff per day, nor can a staff be prepared by more than one person per day. If the charges aren’t used within 24 hours, they’re lost, and preparing the staff anew removes any charges previously stored in it. You can prepare a staff only if you have at least one of the staff’s spells on your spell list. Prepared spellcasters and spontaneous spellcasters each have a unique way of altering how their staves gain charges and the ways they can be used
So the staff gains a number of charges equal to the highest spell level you can cast for free.
You can add more charges to the staff and the process is different for the type of caster, Prepared or Spontaneous.
No where do I see anything about the charges gaining a type of magic (ie Divine or Primal). It is a charge that is used by the staff when activating and casting a spell from the staff.
Looking at archetypes.
A spellcasting archetype allows you to use scrolls, staves, and wands in the same way that a member of a spellcasting class can.
I could not find where it states that a spellcasting archtype adds the spellcasting class spells to their spell list but this heavy implies that they do.
So how I read this question is if the character meets the requirements for the spell then charges are used to activate the staff. I don't see that it matters if the charges were added by a class that does not have the spell being cast on that class's spell list.
|
|
The issue isn't the charges.
The issue is the requirement to use a specific spell imbued on the staff is this: "are able to cast spells of the appropriate level"
It's true that the staff doesn't mention a tradition, but is being able to cast Divine cantrips the same as being able to cast 5th level Divine spells?
For comparison, scroll's requirements:
To Cast a Spell from a scroll, the spell must appear on your spell list.
For comparison, wand's requirements:
To cast a spell from a wand, it must be on your spell list.
Back to staff:
You can Cast a Spell from a staff only if you have that spell on your spell list, are able to cast spells of the appropriate level, and expend a number of charges from the staff equal to the spell’s level.
So that's different for a reason.
|
|
Back to staff:
You can Cast a Spell from a staff only if you have that spell on your spell list, are able to cast spells of the appropriate level, and expend a number of charges from the staff equal to the spell’s level.So that's different for a reason.
The point for staffs requiring the user to have have the appropriate level (which is spell level BTW, but I think we all understand that) is to provide the charges to the staff. To use the spell off the staff the character has to have it on their spell list.
So is the real question now is does a spellcasting MCD add all spells to the character's spell list? I swear I read that but I can't find where now.
|
|
Back to staff:
You can Cast a Spell from a staff only if you have that spell on your spell list, are able to cast spells of the appropriate level, and expend a number of charges from the staff equal to the spell’s level.So that's different for a reason.
The point for staffs requiring the user to have have the appropriate level (which is spell level BTW, but I think we all understand that) is to provide the charges to the staff. To use the spell off the staff the character has to have it on their spell list.
So is the real question now is does a spellcasting MCD add all spells to the character's spell list? I swear I read that but I can't find where now.
While not having specific bearing on the interpretation of cross tradition spell levels, I disagree with your interpretation that spell level is only for adding charges.
The sentence states right there
You can Cast a Spell from a staff only if you have that spell on your spell list, are able to cast spells of the appropriate level, and expend a number of charges from the staff equal to the spell’s level.
It lists three things linked by "and."
1. Spell on your spell list
2. Able to cast spells of the desired spells level
3. Spend the number of charges equal to the spell's level
This is separate from the rules on charging a staff. You could (outside PFS) own a level 12 staff but only be able to cast level three spells and still charge up the staff with 3 free charges and cast the cantrip, 1st, 2nd, and 3rd spells without being able to cast the 4th and 5th level spells.
|
|
So is the real question now is does a spellcasting MCD add all spells to the character's spell list? I swear I read that but I can't find where now.
I don't think that is a question.
You can prepare two common cantrips each day from the divine spell list in this book or any other cantrips you learn or discover.
You can prepare two common cantrips each day from the primal spell list in this book or any other cantrips you learn or discover.
You gain a spell repertoire with two common cantrips from the spell list associated with your bloodline, or any other cantrips you learn or discover.
You gain a spell repertoire with two common cantrips from the occult spell list, or any other cantrips you learn or discover.
Unless your argument is the list of spells from which you choose your spells is not the same thing as the spell list.
|
|
I am a L6 divine caster RIGHT NOW with a wizard MCD. I am Level 6 so I can buy the Staff of Evocation and was planning on buying it with the NEXT Chronicle sheet. So, no it is not academic.
Apologies. You should have mentioned that earlier. I was assuming this quote was accurate:
He is a wizard or sorcerer with multiclass cleric dedication (2nd level feat) who wants to use a Level 12 Staff of Healing to cast 5th level breath of life with his 5th level arcane slots, which might be how it's supposed to work but I have might doubts, but my bigger question is how he has an 11th or 12th level PFS(2) character to be having his quandry.
Regarding your specific question and example, I'll give you my "How I'd rule it at my table" (FWIW):
I wouldn't let it work.
I admit I don't know much about the debate, or spellcasting in general, but many GMs won't either, so it comes down to conservative or liberal interpretations when you have nothing else to go off. Being able to cast divine spells and use an arcane staff seems wrong to me.
But that doesn't "break" your character. You still have a Level 6 character (congrats, btw, on stacking those Chronicles) who is obviously effective enough to get this far, and who you must have had fun playing without using a staff. Why shelve them now?
Sorry for reviving this older thread, the search function brought me here.
My question is at least somewhat related: As an otherwise non-arcane character with a wizard MCD (which gets me the cast a spell activity, a spell book, four cantrips, two cantrip "slots", and some other things, but no 1st-level spells), are all (common) arcane spells considered to be "on my list"?
That is, can I
a) cast a 1st-level (or higher) arcane spell off a scroll, and
b) attempt to scribe a 1st-level (or higher) arcane spell from a scroll or another friendly wizard's book into my spell book (in preparation for eventually being able to use them)?
|
|
That is, can I
a) cast a 1st-level (or higher) arcane spell off a scroll, and
b) attempt to scribe a 1st-level (or higher) arcane spell from a scroll or another friendly wizard's book into my spell book (in preparation for eventually being able to use them)?
I believe the answer to both questions is yes.