I mean it's not a Captain America movie.
Because the plot of the film is that the Avengers cause an international incident that forces them to either sign an international charter or go rogue; a situation which is manipulated by Zemo to enact revenge on the Avengers.
If I'm restricted to only make reference to information included in the titles of the movies, then you definitely have to restrict yourself to information only contained within the films.
If the movie had been solely about Cap, Sam, and Sharon looking for Bucky and trying to save him and get him help, while dealing with Zemo's plotting on one side and Ross's attempts to hamstring them on the other, it would have been a Captain America movie. And it actually would have been a damn good one. There could have been a lot more exploration of the ramifications of what was revealed in CA:TWS and better character development for Cap and his "family" and some good mix of action and political elements.
What we got instead was a story about Cap trying to help Bucky shoehorned into a larger story about the Avengers fighting each other instead of the forces working to tear them apart, led by a guilt-ridden Iron Man trying to make amends for his past mistakes. When people are more hyped at the end of the movie about Black Panther and Spider-Man than they are about Cap (or his immediate comrades), then it wasn't a Captain America movie.
I always feel like Chris Evans got screwed out of a proper third installment to his franchise... meanwhile it looks like we'll have Thor and Spider-Man movies into eternity. He certainly didn't suffer for screentime in the Avengers films, mind, but I feel like his character development basically stopped after TWS and never started again, and he really could have used a movie that was different from Civil War to more deeply deal with his experiences as a soldier and a man out of time.
And once again while I am here I will also remind the universe I will never forgive the makers of Civil War for writing Sharon into a cardboard cutout role who had two lines and nothing to do because they needed to be fanboys and bring in Spider-Man instead. (And to pre-empt the usual responses I get to this: yes, Tom Holland is an excellent Spider-Man, and I have no problem with him or the character itself; my issue is how his introduction hijacked this film and its focus, and seriously f&$%ed over Emily Van Camp in the process).
Really I think it's one of those movies that everyone remembers as good, but I think had it not come out right after the mess that was Batman vs Superman, it would have had a much worse reception. It's one of those things where they try to do way too much and the plot does not stand up under scrutiny. But it was better paced than BVS by a huge amount and delivered better dialogue and made in-the-moment emotionally manipulative hits that made you feel a thrill while you were watching it, and so people were very forgiving of it simply because it was NOT another BVS. If not coming off of that massive disappointment, I think its many flaws would have been far more apparent. As it is, yes it is a very fun action-figures-smash-together kind of superhero film, but it is not something that weathers deep review well at all.
On topic but related to Civil War, it occurs to me that Dr. Strange and the MOM could be in danger of a similar problem: is it really going to be a Dr. Strange movie, or is it going to be a giant a-role-for-everybody film that happens to have some Dr. Strange in it? I'm not saying you can't have other heroes show up in a solo title; I think for example CA:TWS worked well with Nat also appearing in it. But I know there is a lot of speculation about all these heroes who might cameo in this story, will they supplement or detract from the story and the core magic-MCU-verse characters it is supposed to be about? As Civil War was basically a device to just fracture the Avengers prior to Infinity War than stand well as a story in its own right, will Dr. Strange and the MOM be more of a giant cavalcade of heroes and establishing new threats for the MCU to come, or is it going to have a self-contained story we can enjoy on its own?
| 1 person marked this as a favorite. |
I just now realize that what MOM stands for and at the same time how it reminds of the fact this is kind of the MOM for the Multiverse. With regards to whether Strange will be a bit player in his own movie...I feel it's unlikely due to the fact other than Wanda and America Chavez, no one else it seems has the multiversal chops to deal with what might be around the corner. Certainly not Shummy and/or D'spayre. Those guys are pretty potent.
Also SLIGHTLY disagree that we will have Thor and Spider-man into eternity...if only because I think Tom Holland might want a break.
I feel it's unlikely due to the fact other than Wanda and America Chavez, no one else it seems has the multiversal chops to deal with what might be around the corner.
Considering at this point we've never seen one of those characters and the other hasn't dealt with the multiverse at all yet...
dirtypool,
True but the fact remains Wanda (at least) has the potential to break reality. The point is, unlike Civil War, you don't have an over abundance of guys that could realistically handle what threat is coming or what it all means.
How does Civil War relate to statements about Wanda and America Chavez in Multiverse of Madness?
I was using what DQ was talking about in terms of "over abundance of characters and said characters being able to fix stuff."
Cool, I didn’t bring up anything about Civil War in the statement I made. I know I’ve said it before, but When you address me directly by name and then reply to a statement someone else made, it is more than a little confusing.
|
Cool, I didn’t bring up anything about Civil War in the statement I made. I know I’ve said it before, but When you address me directly by name and then reply to a statement someone else made, it is more than a little confusing.
People have said this to him many times, and requested that he use the ‘reply’ feature like everyone else does to avoid confusion, but for some inexplicable reason (which he refuses to explain) he refuses to do it.
Because I enjoy chaos and you all don't read very well apparently.
| 1 person marked this as a favorite. |
If it was one person who asked you clarify something like that one time, maybe then it was an issue with their reading comprehension, but it happens to multiple people many times.
At a certain point you have to wonder if perhaps it was the messenger and not the recipient at fault.
No I'm pretty sure that's A Captain Marvel/Carol Danvers. Whether or not it's OUR Carol...up for debate. Also I think we might have more than two Scarlet Witches...but I could be wrong.
Regardless, I am glad this trailer is out. It's very damn epic, scary and Marvel-ly.
Cool! I'm glad we got that. Maybe the rumors about a multiversal Illuminati are true...considering that part of the trailer.
|
So, after hearing (Patrick Stewart) Xavier’s voice in the trailer, suggesting the Illuminati, they’ve now put out a TV spot seemingly confirming the group. I say “seemingly” on the chance it may be some kind of in-plot trick.
I’ll be interested to see who else is in the group, and which actors they get to portray them.
I haven't bought my ticket YET, but I certainly plan to when I can find the time on a weekend.
| 2 people marked this as a favorite. |
Also, something cool not in the trailer, but in the poster, there's a piece of Captain Carter's shield! (lower right)
Newest TV spot shows a clip of a fight between Wanda and Captain Carter.
Dude!!! I wonder if that's an alternate Wanda fighting Captain Carter. (Also is it Hayley Atwell as Captain Carter or someone else?)
| 1 person marked this as a favorite. |
Dude!!! I wonder if that's an alternate Wanda fighting Captain Carter. (Also is it Hayley Atwell as Captain Carter or someone else?)
wish I knew, it's a blink and you miss it shot of someone with the British Shield, don't even see the face of the person using it, but it's got to be Carter right?
I mean it could be someone else as Captain Britain...but sure.
Not sure Mephisto does...but if he does, he's got competition from Kang.
As for the tentacle monster that isn't actually named Shuma-Gorath (even though he TOTALLY is!) I mean it's possible...
I liked it!
It was not quite what I expected, but it was what it needed to be.
The alt universe heroes were cool to see. And they played *that* song. *eeeeee!*
Looking forward to more of America Chavez, eventually.
That was a neat film and offering us some interesting possibilities for the future.
Comics or Movies Wanda just keeps getting put through the wringer
Ok so Young Avengers Role-call
Cassandra Lang
Eli Bradley
Kid Loki
Kate Bishop
America Chavez
probably can't count Billy and Tommy unless something weird happens,
and of course Kamala Khan incoming.
Eh..I mean if having multiple versions of Peter Parker show up, one cannot FULLY discount the appearance of Wiccan/Billy and Speed/Tommy.
|
|
The boy and I just got back from seeing it. While I enjoyed the movie, it certainly had its flaws. I expected that, given the state of the MCU since Endgame, and that Sam Raimi was directing and the writer was also responsible for the Loki show.
Overall, I’d say it definitively ranks behind the first Doctor Strange movie, but it was nowhere near as bad as some of the other cinematic brain farts they’ve put out (such as Ironman 3, Thor 2, Spider-man: Far from Home, Eternals, Captain Marvel).
The book of the Vishanti!!! Woot!
The performances by Benedict Cumberbatch and Elizabeth Olsen were magnificent. She played the hero corrupted by evil and driven mad very well. He played multiple versions of himself with equal skill.
Seeing Wundagore Mountain’s cinematic debut.
The musical fight between the two Stranges. The choreography of the music and spell work was really great.
The fight with not Shuma Gorath was pretty kick ass.
Undead Doctor Strange rocked! I just wish his fight with Wanda had been more drawn out.
Bruce Campbell!
Seeing Clea!!! They got the costume correct, but not the hair.
I wish their had been a greater emphasis on horror.
Making Scarlet Witch the villain. It’s a character few writers can handle, so this was much like the comic books in that regard.
Spending an entire movie not utilizing a better villain. There’s so many awesome ones to choose from throughout the comic book history. The least they could have done is put greater emphasis on the influence and machinations of Cthon.
Memory sidewalk - so lame, it makes emo Peter Parker look cooler.
America Chavez - The actress did an adequate job. That said, and maybe I’m just a curmudgeonly old fart, but the character and her powers make no sense (other than to tell a multiverse story). I think that character came from a time when I wasn’t collecting Marvel, when most of what they put out was crap. Then, of course, she can now wield magic. Maybe she and Ned can save the day next time.
The fight at Kamar Taj. Maybe more sorcerers would have lived if the Sorcerer Supreme and Strange hadn’t stood around waiting while they shot their magic cannons and energy bows.
The Illuminati - disappointingly lame. You’d think they could have splurged for a Tony Stark appearance. And maybe given us Namor. And, man, did they get their asses handed to them.
Finally, wasting an awesome villain like Shuma Gorath. Luckily, that can be easily remedied by a better writer.
| 1 person marked this as a favorite. |
I just saw it and also read A-zombie's review. He doesn't give this movie it's REAL due. It's a great Doctor Strange and indeed one of the better Marvel movies. It's WELL above its predecessor in terms of mind bending quality and even just over all acting. Is without flaws? No, but it's a great Sam Raimi work and certainly worth seeing in theaters. (Unlike Eternals.) I will agree with one thing;
|
|
| 2 people marked this as a favorite. |
… other cinematic brain farts they’ve put out (such as Ironman 3, Thor 2, Spider-man: Far from Home, Eternals, Captain Marvel).
Have to strongly disagree with some of this.
Ironman 3 and Thor 2 certainly left something to be desired, but I really like Captain Marvel, and I thought Spider-man: Far from Home was an amazing movie, as did a TON of other folks judging by the box office.
You’re entitled to your opinion of course, but I think you’re being pretty needlessly harsh here …
He's always been needlessly harsh. Captain Marvel was a good movie. Not the BEST, but certainly better than Thor 2 and Iron Man 3.
Also his review doesn't take into account just the fact it's more than the hero on this journey. It's the entire universe.
|
|
You’re entitled to your opinion of course, but I think you’re being pretty needlessly harsh here …
To be honest, I typically restrain myself.
On that note, I forgot to add Shang Chi to the list of crap. It was a shame how they wasted the Dweller in Darkness. Still, at least it gave us Trevor Slattery and Morris.
|
|
And, for the life of me, I can’t figure out who that first demon is supposed to be. I’m wracking the 35+ years of comic book collecting trivia stored away in the labyrinthine corridors of what passes for my brain, and I just don’t recognize it. Creepy, though. Something I’d love to see translated into the comic book.
As far as I know there is no canonical first demon in the comics, merely just demons. Shang-Chi wasn't crap either. Cthon should have made the cut.
Iron Man 2 was far worse than Iron Man 3.
Iron, not sure I agree with that but there was some stuff in Iron Man 2 that never sat well with me.
So any bets on whether this movie breaks half a billion before next weekend?
The core problem with IM2 is that they wrote it to set up the MCU, and so it was just kinda dumb. Some other movies did pick up the pieces of IM2 and ran with them, but the movie itself didn't really tell a coherent story. Some storylines essentially contradicted each other in theme... it's fine if a character explores contradictions in their goals, and the resolution of which can make for an interesting story. It's bad when your C-plot and D-plot don't intersect AND kinda contradict each other and some completely divorced. It's why the movie doesn't sit well with you.
IM3 is coherent, even if you don't like the plot.
No I'm pretty sure IM3 isn't that coherent...but okay.
|
| 1 person marked this as a favorite. |
Man, that was a damn good time. It felt a little disconnected, like it didn't have a lot of weight to it. Wanda was used as a lot of things and not exactly well. But there was plenty of fan service and decent use of the multiverse. It just felt like a vehicle to set up plenty of other things. (A common thing in the MCU, which has worked out and may yet again.)
Also, boy was Sam being VERY Raimi in this.
Yeah. There's no question this was totally a "This is what Sam Raimi movie is" kind of movie...with Marvel.
This movie is now streaming, so my wife and I stayed up to watch it last night. We had planned to watch half of it, go to bed, and watch the other half tonight, but we were enjoying it so much that we intentionally stayed up.
Spoilers, below...
Anyway, a couple bits of writing were annoying (like when Wong implies that Wundagore Mountain is hard to get to, and then they reach it quickly and without any trouble), but that's just something you've got to accept in a movie as densely packed as this one was.
As usual, I stay away from trailers and discussions of Marvel movies so that I can fully enjoy any big reveals. The Illuminati were a fun reveal, if a little pointless. (I liked the callback to the Fantastic 4 being active back in the 60s... it makes me wonder how (if?) they plan on using those IPs. Are they going to keep them separate and not merge them all in with the 616 timeline?)
The biggest and most fun reveal for me was that Sam Raimi was directing. Pizza Poppa didn't clue me in, but some things started to look familiar, and then when I saw the classic jump-scare where the camera tilts and zooms in at the same time with an orchestra beat in the background, I had to pull out my phone and confirm.
I enjoyed it. I used to rank my preference in Marvel movies, but there's so many now, and it's been over a full-ass decade since I've seen some of them, that it feels pointless to rank them. I'll just say that DSatMoM is one of the MCU movies I enjoyed, and not one of the MCU movies that I didn't enjoy.
|
|
‘Doctor Strange 2’: Pizza Poppa Isn't Just a Pizza Guy, According to Bruce Campbell
He was a different character in all of Tobey Maguire's SM movies. Before DS: MoM, Strange helped Peter Parker in No Way Home, which just happened to involve Tobey Maguire's SM. Coincidence? I think not.
If Stan Lee's cameos were tied into the Watchers all that time, there could actually be a tongue-in-cheek way to canonize Bruce Campbell's characters over the years into the MCU as a multiversal being of immense importance.
So let this post act as my prayer: I beseech you, oh deities of the Feige Pantheon, deliver unto us the Campbell cameos, that we may craft elaborate fan fics about his place in your multiverse!
You know, he does just kind of resemble The Beyonder…..
Mmm. Beyonder = Bruce Campbell. I can see that.