Bleed better without Medicine?

[YogoZuno]

If a character has a persistent Bleed damage condition, they can take a 2 action activity to give an extra flat check to end the condition. The First Aid activity of Medicine can also provide an additional flat check to end the condition, but only by rolling a DC15 check first. So, this means using the Medicine skill is actually less reliable than using the built-in Persistent Damage condition fix. Can anyone explain why, or why you would choose to use the medicine activity in this case?

[Staffan Johansson]

YogoZuno wrote:

If a character has a persistent Bleed damage condition, they can take a 2 action activity to give an extra flat check to end the condition. The First Aid activity of Medicine can also provide an additional flat check to end the condition, but only by rolling a DC15 check first. So, this means using the Medicine skill is actually less reliable than using the built-in Persistent Damage condition fix. Can anyone explain why, or why you would choose to use the medicine activity in this case?

Because the rule isn't that you can always use a 2-action activity to give an extra flat check. The rule is: "You can take steps to help yourself recover from persistent damage, or an ally can help you, allowing you to attempt an additional flat check before the end of your turn. This is usually an activity requiring 2 actions, and it must be something that would reasonably improve your chances (as determined by the GM). For example, you might try to smother a flame, wash off acid, or use Medicine to Administer First Aid to stanch bleeding. This allows you to attempt an extra flat check immediately."

So for bleeding in particular, using the Administer First Aid activity is the 2-action activity needed to give an extra flat check. You can't just move up to someone and put your hands on them randomly and hope to stanch the bleeding, you need to know what you're doing. Similarly, if you're on fire and someone casts create water, that would be the two-action activity (which probably ought to give a lower DC for the extra flat check as well).

[cameronst]

The DC15 medicine skill check to administer first aid is not a flat check, thus you can use your proficiency modifier.

[YogoZuno]

cameronst wrote:

The DC15 medicine skill check to administer first aid is not a flat check, thus you can use your proficiency modifier.

Except that making the Medicine check doesn't remove the condition, it simply allows another flat check at 15, which might well fail.

Staffan Johansson wrote:

So for bleeding in particular, using the Administer First Aid activity is the 2-action activity needed to give an extra flat check.

If true, this makes Bleed even more deadly, if the only way to even get an extra flat check is to make a DC15 check...harsh!

[Mellack]

YogoZuno wrote:

cameronst wrote:

The DC15 medicine skill check to administer first aid is not a flat check, thus you can use your proficiency modifier.

Except that making the Medicine check doesn't remove the condition, it simply allows another flat check at 15, which might well fail.

Staffan Johansson wrote:

So for bleeding in particular, using the Administer First Aid activity is the 2-action activity needed to give an extra flat check.

If true, this makes Bleed even more deadly, if the only way to even get an extra flat check is to make a DC15 check...harsh!

It is not that hard to make a DC15 Medicine check. Even at level 1, a trained character probably has 50% chance. By mid-levels it is almost assured to be made.

[Draco18s]

YogoZuno wrote:

cameronst wrote:

The DC15 medicine skill check to administer first aid is not a flat check, thus you can use your proficiency modifier.

Except that making the Medicine check doesn't remove the condition, it simply allows another flat check at 15, which might well fail.

(1) The flat check can be reduced to 10 after performing such actions. "Reduce the DC of the flat check to 10 for a particularly appropriate type of help, such as dousing you in water to put out flames." Once reduced, its reduced permanently (at least until the next time the condition is applied).

(2) The flat check you get after performing such actions is in addition to the one you get after your turn. "This allows you to attempt an extra flat check immediately"
(3) There is no penalty for failure.

And that is assuming that it doesn't end the condition immediately. "Automatically end the condition due to the type of help, such as healing that restores you to your maximum HP to end persistent bleed damage, or submerging yourself in a lake to end persistent fire damage."