Underfoot Underfoot assault II electric boogaloo: 5 foot step negates or no?

[BigNorseWolf]

If you Guarded step out of a square with an Underfoot Ysoki, do you get an AOO from the ysoki or not?

Underfoot:

You use your small size against larger foes.
D Prerequisites: Scurry (see above), Acrobatics 10 ranks, racial
bonus to Dexterity, size Small.
D Beneft: As a move action, you can try to slip into the space
of an adjacent foe larger than you are. To do so, attempt an
Acrobatics check (DC = 15 + 1-1/2 × opponent’s CR). If you
succeed, you enter your opponent’s space. If you fail, you
remain in your starting position, and you are flat-footed and
off-target until the end of your next turn.
While you occupy a foe’s space, that foe is flat-footed and
off-target, and it treats its space as difcult terrain. If your
opponent tries to move out of your space, it provokes an
attack of opportunity from you.

Underfoot Assault

Argument No: Its a guarded step they don't provoke

Argument Yes: Leaving the square is it's own condition, not a movement related one. you get whacked.

We had this kind of language in pathfinder and it never really got resolved. I really wish they'd take a look at the reception some of the starfinder language got when they borrow it for pathfinder.

[BigNorseWolf]

I may have crossed some wires there but you know what I mean

[Pantshandshake]

Well.

My vote is that "If your
opponent tries to move out of your space, it provokes an
attack of opportunity from you" is in there to to specify that moving out of the space is the same as moving from a threatened square, to avoid arguments about whether you threaten the shared space or not (as the Ysoki.) Following from that, a guarded step would prevent the AoO.

I am entirely unsure if that's the correct intent or not, it's just how I would rule it.

Let's get that FAQ nice and bloated.

[Lethallin]

I agree with Pants, it seems the wording is just making it clear that the user is threatening the square that they're in.

Though it could have just thrown in "You threaten your opponent while occupying their square." instead.

So clarity would be nice, but I'd rule it's just a regular AoO that a guarded step negates.

[BigNorseWolf]

Lethallin wrote:

I agree with Pants, it seems the wording is just making it clear that the user is threatening the square that they're in.

There was no need to do this in pathfinder and there's REALLY no reason to do that in starfinder. You already threaten your square. Saying one thing to remind you of something else instead of just saying something else... wouldn't be the oddest way paizo has put things but it would be up there.

[Pantshandshake]

I agree that it isn't the best wording, which is pretty much Paizo's own banner ad. To support my possibly correct opinion, I offer this:

The "Reach and Threatened Squares" section of the "Movement and Position" rules never actually says that you threaten the square you're in. It does mention in passing that you 'threaten all squares you can make an attack into.' However, given that the majority of the time you aren't fighting anything that can share a square with you, the possibility exists that they wanted to to add a reminder into an ability that would let you do such a thing (share a square.)

I can totally imagine that someone writing something for Paizo would put it into a book in this way.

Does it make me more likely to be correct? Maybe, maybe not. Like I said, I'm not even trying to break this down to determine intent.

[TheGoofyGE3K]

So in underfoot, part of it says the space is specifically counted as difficult terrain. Wouldn't that negate the guarded step? I know it did in pathfinder, but not sure about starfinder

[Pantshandshake]

TheGoofyGE3K wrote:

So in underfoot, part of it says the space is specifically counted as difficult terrain. Wouldn't that negate the guarded step? I know it did in pathfinder, but not sure about starfinder

I don't recall Pathfinder's rule for moving OUT of difficult terrain, but there's nothing that I know of in Starfinder's rules for it.

[TheGoofyGE3K]

Which makes the difficult terrain useless, as all of its effects are based on stepping into it. Odd point to make it that way if it has zero effect on the creature

[Pantshandshake]

Maybe the creature is large, and the only way it can move involves part of its 10x10 base staying in the difficult terrain.

Maybe the specific creature has a bonus or penalty involving difficult terrain.

Maybe someone rules that starting in difficult terrain aslo removes the ability to run/charge.

The point is, while Paizo's decisions regularly don't make a lot of surface sense, they very, very rarely actually make 'zero' sense.

[TheGoofyGE3K]

Pantshandshake wrote:

Maybe the creature is large, and the only way it can move involves part of its 10x10 base staying in the difficult terrain.

Maybe the specific creature has a bonus or penalty involving difficult terrain.

Maybe someone rules that starting in difficult terrain aslo removes the ability to run/charge.

The point is, while Paizo's decisions regularly don't make a lot of surface sense, they very, very rarely actually make 'zero' sense.

I said it was an 'odd' point to make. Not that it made zero sense. And I hadn't considered large creatures, good point.

No need to get so defensive

[Pantshandshake]

Oh, I wasn't being defensive.

Just pointing out there's a difference between "zero effect" and "a handful of weird edge cases where this might matter."

[BigNorseWolf]

TheGoofyGE3K wrote:

So in underfoot, part of it says the space is specifically counted as difficult terrain. Wouldn't that negate the guarded step? I know it did in pathfinder, but not sure about starfinder

hmmmm... good point

Isn't the space you're moving INTO supposed to count for difficult terrain though?

[kadance]

For medium creatures it only matters what terrain you are moving into. Creatures that occupy multiple squares move at the worst cost of all the squares.

The target's square being difficult terrain and containing a creature may stop them from charging elsewhere due to the phrase "any line from your starting space to the ending space [passing] through a square that blocks movement, slows movement (such as difficult terrain), or contains a creature."

[BigNorseWolf]

Right, but the underfoot ysoki only counts as difficult terrain for the critter they've moved into which would mean the ability is pretty useless: someone can just guarded step away into a square that DOESN't have a fluffy ball of death in it and then whack the underfoot ysoki