Hello folks. Investigators is realy good skill class with not bad combat abilities. Study comdat and strike is pretty good, mutagen and combat inspiration gives good combat abilities.
Recently I watched Soviet version of Sherlock Holmes and version with Robert Downey Jr and I had an idea to make him in Pathfinder, but with some changed attributes. He is very smart, but his communication abilities is very low. Also he like drink alcohol and punch faces if problem cant be solved with brain.( Also in this world, when you drunked you ignore illusion spell, but still can have illusions by confusion)
I want make him medium or high level character, taking 2-3 levels of MoMS and Drunked Master monk, but that can hit to investigator talents.
With MoMS I want fuse Kirin and snake styles( I think this combination is logical because analysis enemy and use his exploits vs him)
With drunken master I think I can use extra ki to extra attacks.
For feats I think take Kirin style and strike, snake style chain, combat reflexes(for snake style chain), weapon finesse, Toughness, inspired strike, Greater Fortitude
For talent I think take Mutagen, Quick Study, Amazing Inspiration, Combat Inspiration, Timed strike, Tenacious Inspiration
Studied combat with Kirin and snake styles gives bonus around +6 to attack, +16 damage( if intelligence is 20), +2 to AC and 2 extra attacks(+1 if drunken ki will work)
What are you think about that? What I need to change? What combination of styles better?
Just a word of warning, kirin style has a problem with the number of swift actions required which MoMS makes worse and which snake style makes doubly worse.
One swift action to start one of the styles (this can be removed with the combat style master feat, true).
One swift action to start the other (this can't be so removed, per MoMS).
One swift action each time you want to identify a monster using kirin style.
One swift action each time you use kirin strike to add damage (requires you to have used kirin style to identify the target).
One immediate action each time you use snake style to dodge an attack.
Also using ki to get an extra attack during a flurry takes a swift action.
How many swift actions do you have?
Just a word of warning, kirin style has a problem with the number of swift actions required which MoMS makes worse and which snake style makes doubly worse.
One swift action to start one of the styles (this can be removed with the combat style master feat, true).
One swift action to start the other (this can't be so removed, per MoMS).
One swift action each time you want to identify a monster using kirin style.
One swift action each time you use kirin strike to add damage (requires you to have used kirin style to identify the target).
One immediate action each time you use snake style to dodge an attack.
Also using ki to get an extra attack during a flurry takes a swift action.How many swift actions do you have?
Well i use normal ruels, so 1 swift action
Yes, action aconomy us bad, but i can change this problem?
Not really. Kirin style just costs too many swift actions to be competitive and the rules elements you want to mix it with cost more. Cool idea, doesn't work.
Not really. Kirin style just costs too many swift actions to be competitive and the rules elements you want to mix it with cost more. Cool idea, doesn't work.
If Kirin style dont work good in this combination, what style i need choose instead it?
BTW I think drunken ki won't add attacks to MoMS on reflection - it adds an attack to flurry of blows which they don't have.
If the core idea is smart guy who fights unarmed, using PF1 rules without 3rd party then my brain keeps saying "play a magus!" If that's too obviously magical for the concept then tripping and vicious stomp seem like they might help.
BTW I think drunken ki won't add attacks to MoMS on reflection - it adds an attack to flurry of blows which they don't have.
If the core idea is smart guy who fights unarmed, using PF1 rules without 3rd party then my brain keeps saying "play a magus!" If that's too obviously magical for the concept then tripping and vicious stomp seem like they might help.
Magus is arcane , its not how i plan do it. Also Magus not so skill focused, like investigator
Also 3rd party allowed, exept psionic
Jabbing and boar can do good damage bonus i think
Jabing bonus damage dices works with snake bonus attacks?
If extra ki of drunken master dont work when flurry is replaced, i think take monastic legacy to upgrage common unarmed strike damage
Lore warden fighter with focused weapon AWT can do nice unarmed combat and use knowledge skills, but investigator more skill based
Jabbing style and boar style need 2+ attacks to be of use. Sure you can get them early with MoMS, but they don't do anything unless you have those 2+ attacks.
Jabbing bonus damage works with any unarmed attacks you make in the same round, not just in the same action. The snake style chain is another mess of conflicting swift/immediate actions though.
Jabbing style and boar style need 2+ attacks to be of use. Sure you can get them early with MoMS, but they don't do anything unless you have those 2+ attacks.
Jabbing bonus damage works with any unarmed attacks you make in the same round, not just in the same action. The snake style chain is another mess of conflicting swift/immediate actions though.
it begins to seem to me that MoMs styles works very strange, and that make good normal unarmed investigator looks impossible
An investigator is one of the few classes which doesn't do unarmed well (short of polymorphing, which they can do actually). I suspect that an unchained rogue, maybe with a dip in the sleepless detective prestige class would do your concept better.
Still - with a 1 level dip in unchained monk for flurry and unarmed damage and less focus on style feats you could get somewhere with an investigator I think.
An investigator is one of the few classes which doesn't do unarmed well (short of polymorphing, which they can do actually). I suspect that an unchained rogue, maybe with a dip in the sleepless detective prestige class would do your concept better.
Still - with a 1 level dip in unchained monk for flurry and unarmed damage and less focus on style feats you could get somewhere with an investigator I think.
Unchained monk is good idea, but flurry dont work in armor. Also there isnt which change Wis to Int to Ac and abilities
If 3rd party material is on the table then I'm sure there's something to switch monks from Wis to Int. At the very least there's a D&D 3.5 feat which does that, Carmendine monk.
Sohei monks (not unchained) can flurry in armor. A two-level dip in brawler could do the same. Neither gets Wis to AC at the same time.
If 3rd party material is on the table then I'm sure there's something to switch monks from Wis to Int. At the very least there's a D&D 3.5 feat which does that, Carmendine monk.
Sohei monks (not unchained) can flurry in armor. A two-level dip in brawler could do the same. Neither gets Wis to AC at the same time.
Brawler is good option too, with mutagenitic mauler or snakebite striker
Sohei is not unarmed so i think this not about my concept
Sohei get flurry of blows, improved unarmed strike and 1d6 unarmed damage at level 1. They get a bunch of non-unarmed stuff later, but if you're only taking a 1 level dip and spending the bonus feat on combat reflexes or something then that non-unarmed stuff doesn't show up to taint your concept.
Sohei get flurry of blows, improved unarmed strike and 1d6 unarmed damage at level 1. They get a bunch of non-unarmed stuff later, but if you're only taking a 1 level dip and spending the bonus feat on combat reflexes or something then that non-unarmed stuff doesn't show up to taint your concept.
I think 1-2 levels of brawler have more profit than 1-2 levels of sohei
Also i think some extracts can help with combat
Kirin style maybe will work better as solo style
Jabing bonuses looks good, but i need much feats for it and monk or brawlers levels
If you have access to the Unchained Fighter Feats (Combat Stamina), you can skip out on one of the swift actions in set-up, so the first round would be entering the style and then every round after would have +INT damage. If you take a second Style feat and Combat Style Master, you can skip out on the other round of setup (which means you can start dealing +INT damage immediately. You would preferably take a second style that doesn't need to be active at the same time as Kirin Style, so you don't need a MoMs dip.
I want and kirin style, and some unarmed combat, so monk or brawler levels are needed.
Investigator still a primary class for this character, so student if perfection is not neededStamina is very good idea, but my Bba is not full and constitution is not high(around 13-14)
With 2 levels of MoMS i can instead taking 2 different styles, i can take 2 feats of single style chain without pres.
2 feats of snake style gives me extra attacks and i think study combat bonuses aplies and for that attacks
Nope, just the first feats, all other feats in a style feat chain are just combat feats not style feats sorry.
Nope, just the first feats, all other feats in a style feat chain are just combat feats not style feats sorry.
"At 1st level, 2nd level, and every four levels thereafter, a master of many styles may select a bonus style feat or the Elemental Fist feat. He does not need to meet the prerequisites of that feat..."
I understood this as i can take snake style on 1 lvl and snake sideswide on 2nd without pres.Or its wrong?
Wrong sorry, snake style is a style feat but snake sidewind is not, it's just a combat feat, tho' one with a style feat prereq which means you need to be in snake style to use it. MoMS can select a bonus style feat but not a bonus combat feat which depends on a style feat. See their L6 feat option for that.
Wrong sorry, snake style is a style feat but snake sidewind is not, it's just a combat feat, tho' one with a style feat prereq which means you need to be in snake style to use it. MoMS can select a bonus style feat but not a bonus combat feat which depends on a style feat. See their L6 feat option for that.
Ow, thanks, i was wrong. If so, maybe MoMs still gain style profit for 1-2 styles but that makes actions aconomy bad. Maybe change MoMS to UnMonk, but i dont know what to do with it(There isnt UnMonk Sohei version)
If you can get the Carmendine monk feat (D&D 3.5, from Champions of Valor) you could then get some use from mantis style, say. Or do without a style. Outslug style could work without it. Kirin style is a dead end I think.
If you can get the Carmendine monk feat (D&D 3.5, from Champions of Valor) you could then get some use from mantis style, say. Or do without a style. Outslug style could work without it. Kirin style is a dead end I think.
Well, i cant find Carmendine monk. Kirin good, but only for 1 attack. Snake style gain extra attacks and for that applys all bonuses
If you can get the Carmendine monk feat (D&D 3.5, from Champions of Valor) you could then get some use from mantis style, say. Or do without a style. Outslug style could work without it. Kirin style is a dead end I think.Well, i cant find Carmendine monk. Kirin good, but only for 1 attack. Snake style gain extra attacks and for that applies all bonuses
Investigator brawler with kitsune style, dirty fighting, outslug style, and catch off guard is amazing. Traits clever wordplay, and pragmatic activator to reduce CHA requirements in favour of INT.
Investigator gets you quick study and discoveries, base brawler lets you ride up the feat chains as you require to pull off pretty much any maneuver you desire (Dirty fighting acts as a universal prerequisite). Use feats to gain the improved of our preferred style to access the greater versions with brawler.
This build is designed to rush a foe and disorient them with dirty trick on a charge, then damage or maneuver them on subsequent rounds as required. With some shuriken, or improvised weapons and brawler ability for ranged feats you can attack targets at close to medium range and still appear fully disarmed. Very much the new American Sherlock style of combat where he debuffs foes while he plans the kill, or directs his allies to kill. Still swift heavy, but they are generally not competing at the same time.
If you can get the Carmendine monk feat (D&D 3.5, from Champions of Valor) you could then get some use from mantis style, say. Or do without a style. Outslug style could work without it. Kirin style is a dead end I think.Well, i cant find Carmendine monk. Kirin good, but only for 1 attack. Snake style gain extra attacks and for that applies all bonusesInvestigator brawler with kitsune style, dirty fighting, outslug style, and catch off guard is amazing. Traits clever wordplay, and pragmatic activator to reduce CHA requirements in favour of INT.
Investigator gets you quick study and discoveries, base brawler lets you ride up the feat chains as you require to pull off pretty much any maneuver you desire (Dirty fighting acts as a universal prerequisite). Use feats to gain the improved of our preferred style to access the greater versions with brawler.
This build is designed to rush a foe and disorient them with dirty trick on a charge, then damage or maneuver them on subsequent rounds as required. With some shuriken, or improvised weapons and brawler ability for ranged feats you can attack targets at close to medium range and still appear fully disarmed. Very much the new American Sherlock style of combat where he debuffs foes while he plans the kill, or directs his allies to kill. Still swift heavy, but they are generally not competing at the same time.
That build looks strong, thanks. You think for this build need 1 or 2 brawlers levels?
That build looks strong, thanks. You think for this build need 1 or 2 brawlers levels?If you can get the Carmendine monk feat (D&D 3.5, from Champions of Valor) you could then get some use from mantis style, say. Or do without a style. Outslug style could work without it. Kirin style is a dead end I think.Well, i cant find Carmendine monk. Kirin good, but only for 1 attack. Snake style gain extra attacks and for that applies all bonusesInvestigator brawler with kitsune style, dirty fighting, outslug style, and catch off guard is amazing. Traits clever wordplay, and pragmatic activator to reduce CHA requirements in favour of INT.
Investigator gets you quick study and discoveries, base brawler lets you ride up the feat chains as you require to pull off pretty much any maneuver you desire (Dirty fighting acts as a universal prerequisite). Use feats to gain the improved of our preferred style to access the greater versions with brawler.
This build is designed to rush a foe and disorient them with dirty trick on a charge, then damage or maneuver them on subsequent rounds as required. With some shuriken, or improvised weapons and brawler ability for ranged feats you can attack targets at close to medium range and still appear fully disarmed. Very much the new American Sherlock style of combat where he debuffs foes while he plans the kill, or directs his allies to kill. Still swift heavy, but they are generally not competing at the same time.
2 would get you a feat, and flurry which will increase your damage nicely, 3 only if you really want to specialize in a particular maneuver. 4 levels gets you knockout, but not really worth it unless you are going full brawler. 2 would probably be ideal.
2 would get you a feat, and flurry which will increase your damage nicely, 3 only if you really want to specialize in a particular maneuver. 4 levels gets you knockout, but not really worth it unless you are going full brawler. 2 would probably be ideal.That build looks strong, thanks. You think for this build need 1 or 2 brawlers levels?If you can get the Carmendine monk feat (D&D 3.5, from Champions of Valor) you could then get some use from mantis style, say. Or do without a style. Outslug style could work without it. Kirin style is a dead end I think.Well, i cant find Carmendine monk. Kirin good, but only for 1 attack. Snake style gain extra attacks and for that applies all bonusesInvestigator brawler with kitsune style, dirty fighting, outslug style, and catch off guard is amazing. Traits clever wordplay, and pragmatic activator to reduce CHA requirements in favour of INT.
Investigator gets you quick study and discoveries, base brawler lets you ride up the feat chains as you require to pull off pretty much any maneuver you desire (Dirty fighting acts as a universal prerequisite). Use feats to gain the improved of our preferred style to access the greater versions with brawler.
This build is designed to rush a foe and disorient them with dirty trick on a charge, then damage or maneuver them on subsequent rounds as required. With some shuriken, or improvised weapons and brawler ability for ranged feats you can attack targets at close to medium range and still appear fully disarmed. Very much the new American Sherlock style of combat where he debuffs foes while he plans the kill, or directs his allies to kill. Still swift heavy, but they are generally not competing at the same time.
If i have TWF from class i can give feats, that need TWF?
If i have TWF from class i can give feats, that need TWF?2 would get you a feat, and flurry which will increase your damage nicely, 3 only if you really want to specialize in a particular maneuver. 4 levels gets you knockout, but not really worth it unless you are going full brawler. 2 would probably be ideal.That build looks strong, thanks. You think for this build need 1 or 2 brawlers levels?If you can get the Carmendine monk feat (D&D 3.5, from Champions of Valor) you could then get some use from mantis style, say. Or do without a style. Outslug style could work without it. Kirin style is a dead end I think.Well, i cant find Carmendine monk. Kirin good, but only for 1 attack. Snake style gain extra attacks and for that applies all bonusesInvestigator brawler with kitsune style, dirty fighting, outslug style, and catch off guard is amazing. Traits clever wordplay, and pragmatic activator to reduce CHA requirements in favour of INT.
Investigator gets you quick study and discoveries, base brawler lets you ride up the feat chains as you require to pull off pretty much any maneuver you desire (Dirty fighting acts as a universal prerequisite). Use feats to gain the improved of our preferred style to access the greater versions with brawler.
This build is designed to rush a foe and disorient them with dirty trick on a charge, then damage or maneuver them on subsequent rounds as required. With some shuriken, or improvised weapons and brawler ability for ranged feats you can attack targets at close to medium range and still appear fully disarmed. Very much the new American Sherlock style of combat where he debuffs foes while he plans the kill, or directs his allies to kill. Still swift heavy, but they are generally not competing at the same time.
Brawlers TWF can be used as prerequisite for the other TWF feats, but you don't gain the benefits (Reduced penalties) unless you use the Brawlers listed weapons for it. You can use your flexibility to temporarily gain the TWF chain feats if you choose.
Thanks. If so i can take some TWf feats and use flexibility for for styles and manuevers and sometimes inspired strike for extra d8 damage
Use dex for unarmed combat is good idea?
Use dex for unarmed combat is good idea?
DEX is good for thrown weapon builds, ranged builds, and pure DEX martials with feats to spare. For unarmed types with fewer feats to spare priority should be STR/INT>CON>DEX>WIS/CHA.
Use dex for unarmed combat is good idea?DEX is good for thrown weapon builds, ranged builds, and pure DEX martials with feats to spare. For unarmed types with fewer feats to spare priority should be STR/INT>CON>DEX>WIS/CHA.
Strengh have more profit then Dexterity, but with low Dex and with light armor i will have low AC
+22/+22/+17/+12 with 18 str, flurry,weapon focus and study and brawling armor to attack is very good i thik
1d6+13(heavy hitter, str,study, brawling) with every attack is nice too
Outslug also can add +1 or +2 to damage and AC
Outslug also adds mobility eventually, don't forget that.
Outslug also adds mobility eventually, don't forget that.
Many 5 foot steps is usefull?
Strengh have more profit then Dexterity, but with low Dex and with light armor i will have low ACYou could easily do heavy armour and low dex, then take the Artful Dodge feat if you need to meet a dex prerequisite. Here's my doc on the subject. A lot of the links are broken, just replace archivesofnethys.com with aonprd.com
You can use the Student of War prestige class to get INT to AC (replacing DEX), at 7th level.
thats cool idea, thanks. With that i can focus on Str and Int, and some constitution. For adding Int to Ac ineeds 2 levels of Student of war,and that can some hurt Investigator talents