I have a question about the exciter spiritualist's rapture ability. So the ability says: "An exciter gains the ability to enter an ecstatic state in which he’s consumed and overwhelmed by his passions and driven into a fighting fury. This functions similarly to a bloodrager’s bloodrage, treating his spiritualist level as his bloodrager level, though he doesn’t qualify for feats or other elements that require rage or bloodrage. When entering a rapture, the exciter loses all other benefits from having his phantom confined in his consciousness (such as the Skill Focus feats and bonus against mind-affecting effects), but he can choose to exchange the normal +4 morale bonus to his Strength and Constitution scores normally gained from bloodrage for a +4 morale bonus to his Dexterity and Charisma scores or a +2 morale bonus to his Strength, Dexterity, Constitution, and Charisma scores. In addition to the fatigue for ending a bloodrage, an exciter can’t enter a rapture again for 1 minute after ending his last rapture." When it says that the exciter loses ALL benefits, does he also lose "She gains a +4 shield bonus to Armor Class, the spiritualist also sprouts a pair of ectoplasmic tendrils from her body, and This grants the spiritualist a +6 armor bonus to AC without imposing an armor check penalty?"
Considering that the Excitation ability given at level 2 refers to the Bonded Manifestation ability I'd say that's not the case.
Bonded Manifestation may require the phantom to be in your consciousness, but it isn't a benefit of having the phantom in your consciousness.
What is affected is the Skill Focus feats, the bonus vs Mind-Affecting, and technically the bonus feat some emotional focus grants you.
Considering that the Excitation ability given at level 2 refers to the Bonded Manifestation ability I'd say that's not the case.
Bonded Manifestation may require the phantom to be in your consciousness, but it isn't a benefit of having the phantom in your consciousness.What is affected is the Skill Focus feats, the bonus vs Mind-Affecting, and technically the bonus feat some emotional focus grants you.
Okay, thank you for clearing that up. I have another question, what feats would you recommend giving a phantom who is permanently bonded? I was thinking weapon focus (slam) and possessed hand to help out it's bonus to hit. I know in a post prior, you said I should be utilizing the tendril's ability to manipulate objects more than the slams, but I want to at least attempt a front line melee build with this archetype.
Alright, so the weird thing to keep in mind is that it is still the spiritualist making the attacks. The only difference is that you use the Attack Bonus and Damage Dice of the phantom.
So taking Power Attack won't work because the extra damage is still dependent on the spiritualist, but Improved Natural Attack works fine. You'd still add things like Flanking Bonuses, the Enhancement bonus from your Amulet of Mighty Fists, and spell buffs like Heroism to the attack bonus, though.
Unless your phantom has the Anger or Hatred focus, you'll want to start out with Weapon Finesse. Improved Natural Attack should be your 3rd or 4th phantom feat (but not for the Anger focus), and the rest could be accuracy increases like those you've mentioned.
Unfortunately the phantom is incapable of taking actions, so the list of useful feats is very short. You could let the phantom get a familiar through Eldritch Heritage or Improved Familiar Bond, and add the Mascot archetype so it basically becomes the spiritualist's familiar.
I'd also keep in mind that if you attack with the ectoplasmic tendrils before your own attack routine, you could hold off on using Power Attack/Piranha Strike if you feel your accuracy is too low. Considering that most of the slam damage is from your ability modifier, enhancement bonus, and the damage dice, it might not be worth using it.
Alright, so the weird thing to keep in mind is that it is still the spiritualist making the attacks. The only difference is that you use the Attack Bonus and Damage Dice of the phantom.
So taking Power Attack won't work because the extra damage is still dependent on the spiritualist, but Improved Natural Attack works fine. You'd still add things like Flanking Bonuses, the Enhancement bonus from your Amulet of Mighty Fists, and spell buffs like Heroism to the attack bonus, though.
Unless your phantom has the Anger or Hatred focus, you'll want to start out with Weapon Finesse. Improved Natural Attack should be your 3rd or 4th phantom feat (but not for the Anger focus), and the rest could be accuracy increases like those you've mentioned.
Unfortunately the phantom is incapable of taking actions, so the list of useful feats is very short. You could let the phantom get a familiar through Eldritch Heritage or Improved Familiar Bond, and add the Mascot archetype so it basically becomes the spiritualist's familiar.I'd also keep in mind that if you attack with the ectoplasmic tendrils before your own attack routine, you could hold off on using Power Attack/Piranha Strike if you feel your accuracy is too low. Considering that most of the slam damage is from your ability modifier, enhancement bonus, and the damage dice, it might not be worth using it.
Okay, so let me get this straight so that I’m not screwing anything up lol. The phantom can attack twice with it’s tendrils as a swift action, and the spiritualist can still make a full round attack if he so wished right? If I took the anger phantom, who gains power attack on it’s own, would it’s power attack and my attacks be different? Like if it power attacked, would my attacks also suffer the penalty to hit? I’m glad to hear amulet of mighty strikes buffs both the phantom and the spiritualist. Also, is there any kind of feat where if you hit you lower someone’s ac or make them flat footed etc.? Because I thought it would be cool if my phantom attacked first and made the target more vulnerable for me.
Also another thing, if the amulet of mighty strikes applies to the phantom and the spiritualist, would things like a belt of giant’s strength buff the phantom’s strength and the spiritualist’s? That seems kind of broken right? Or I guess you’re saying things that offer hit bonuses would apply to both?
The phantom can attack twice with it’s tendrils as a swift action, and the spiritualist can still make a full round attack if he so wished right?
Yup. Kinda.
The Spiritualist is the one attacking twice with the tendrils, but they can do so in addition to their own full-attack. The phantom isn't actually doing anything. It can't actually do anything at all.If I took the anger phantom, who gains power attack on it’s own, would it’s power attack and my attacks be different? Like if it power attacked, would my attacks also suffer the penalty to hit?
While it's really dumb, you'd not add the phantom's strength modifier to damage or be able to benefit from its Power Attack. The Spiritualist is technically still the one making the slam attacks, so you'd add the Spiritualist's strength modifier to damage and the Spiritualist's damage effects such as Power Attack. Even though you're using the attack bonus and damage dice of the phantom.
Also, is there any kind of feat where if you hit you lower someone’s ac or make them flat footed etc.? Because I thought it would be cool if my phantom attacked first and made the target more vulnerable for me.
Probably, yes. But since the phantom doesn't actually attack, the tendrils won't benefit from those feats. It's actually up to you, the Spiritualist, to take those feats.
Also another thing, if the amulet of mighty strikes applies to the phantom and the spiritualist, would things like a belt of giant’s strength buff the phantom’s strength and the spiritualist’s? That seems kind of broken right? Or I guess you’re saying things that offer hit bonuses would apply to both?
Yeah I'm saying things that offer hit bonuses (or penalties) would apply to both your normal attacks and the slam attacks.
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Basically. The rules are dumb, because the phantom isn't actually the one attacking. It makes the most sense if you just use the phantom's Strength/Dexterity and BAB in place of your own when attacking with the tendrils, and apply every other attack penalty/buff just as usual.
I'm guessing this happened because the designers really didn't want the phantom to have actions while in your consciousness, so they circumvented the problem by giving the Spiritualist two slam attacks with some modifications instead of letting the phantom attack.
So the feats that the phantom gains are effectively just bonus feats for the spiritualist?
Depends which feats you mean. The skill focus feat is, the feats the phantom gains from HD or anything like the anger phantom's bonus power attack aren't gained by the spiritualist ever.
Here's a pretty standard natural attack build, using the alternate Rapture benefits with Extreme Mood Swings to get +3 to Str/Dex/Con and Cha.
At lv 9 you'd have 21 rounds of Rapture and 12 rounds of Bonded Manifestation per day.
Claw or Maw alternate racial trait for two claw attacks
Ability Scores (20 PB):
Str 17+4, Dex 15, Con 13, Int 12, Wis 16+2, Cha 5
4th and 8th increase in Strength, Belt of Strength +2
Headband of Wisdom +2
Character Traits:
Cunning Liar Region Trait
Resilient Martyr Religion Trait
Feats:
1 Extreme Mood Swings
3 Healer's Hands
5 Signature Skill (Heal)
7 Power Attack
9 Lunge
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Attack Routine: (Heroism, Rapture, Power Attack, Zeal Aura)
Bite, Claw/Claw, Talon/Talon +17/+17/+17/+17/+17 (1d4+12)
Bonded Manifestation: (Heroism, Rapture, Power Attack, Zeal Aura)
Slam/Slam +16/+16 (2d8+12)
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Magic Items:
Belt of Strength +2
Headband of Wisdom +2
Cloak of Resistance +2
AoMF +1
Animal Totem Tattoo (Eagle)
18,000/46,000 gp left. (Need armor, and prob some Extend Metamagic rods)
At lower levels you could easily use a Longspear, since it's not really worth going for a Natural Attack build before lv 8 when you get your tendrils or Tattoo. The Animal Mask for just 2,700 could also be bought to add a Gore attack, but it might be hard to squeeze in a swift action when combat has started.
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Phantom (Zeal):
Str 12, Dex 18, Con 13, Int 7, Wis 10, Cha 16
1 Weapon Finesse
3 Weapon Focus (Slam)
6 Improved Natural Attack (Slam)
9 +1 Feat
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Saves (Heroism, Rapture, Zeal Aura):
Fortitude +16
Reflex +17
Will +20
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