So I am VERY new to 2e and I can't figure out exactly how it works. I THINK the proficency bonus is what you use instead now, is this correct? Also do melee classes get multiple attacks per round or no?
Proficiency bonus is level + stat + training + other bonuses -- so a third level fighter with Str 18 trained in the weapon would have 3 + 4 + 2 = +9 to hit with his sword.
As far as multiple attacks go, everyone gets three actions + a reaction each round. You could use all three actions for attacks, even at 1st level, but bear in mind the Multiple Attack Penalty (-5 for the second attack, -10 for the third), though there are some ways to reduce the penalty.
Melee Attack Rolls:
Proficiency [Level + Training Level] + Str + Highest Item Bonus + Highest Circumstance Bonus + Highest Status Bonus
Example. Str 18, level 2 fighter, with expert training in his +1 longsword rolls:
[2+4]+4+1=+11
EVERY class makes one attack per action. Your second attack has a -5 untyped penalty (i.e. it always gets applied). Your third and subsequent attacks take a -10 penalty.
So everyone could make multiple attacks in a round, but no-one makes multiple attacks per action. Unless you are very very easily hitting, you can often find it's worth your while to do something other than make the attacks at a -10.
Many classes have abilities or feats that let them make more than one attack in one action. But you will always be told if that is the case.
See attack rolls on 446, don't try to frame it from what you know from Pathfinder 1e, just focus on how this edition works.
The attack bonus details are on page 446 of the PF2 Core Rulebook (also at Attack Rolls).
Melee attack roll result = d20 roll + Strength modifier (or optionally Dexterity modifier for a finesse weapon) + proficiency bonus + other bonuses + penalties
Ranged attack roll result = d20 roll + Dexterity modifier + proficiency bonus + other bonuses + penalties
So the attack bonus is mostly the Strength modifier of the character plus the proficiency modifier for the weapon for melee attacks, and Dexterity modifier of the character plus the proficiency modifier for the weapon for ranged attacks and finesse attacks. Finesse is now a weapon trait (what PF1 called a weapon property) rather than a feat.
The profiency bonus comes from the class. Fighters have expert proficiency in simple and martial weapons, so their proficiency bonus with a longsword is +4+level. Barbarians have trained proficiency in simple and martial weapons, so their proficiency bonus with a greataxe is +2+level. Druids have trained proficiency in simple weapons, so their proficiency bonus with a dagger is +2+level, but with a longsword or a greataxe is +0 (untrained does not get the level added in).
Melee classes no longer get multiple attacks during a full-round attack action, because full-round attack actions don't exist in PF2. Instead, the character gets three actions per turn. If the character wants, the three actions can all be attacks. However, multiple attacks per turn have a -5 multiple-attack penalty on the second attack and a -10 multiple-attack penalty on the third and later attacks (can get a fourth attack from Haste), just like the PF1 multiple attacks. Thus, the third attack would typically be a miss, so most characters take only two attacks. A common tactic is Demoralize-Strike-Strike, where Demoralize is an Intimidation check that lowers enemy AC and Strike is the official name of an attack action. Another common tactics for sword-and-shield characters is Strike-Strike-RaiseAShield, where Raise a Shield is an action that increases your AC.
So everyone gets the same base attack bonus by level?
So everyone gets the same base attack bonus by level?
Yes, +1 per level, for every class.
Note though it's not called Base Attack Bonus any longer. As the posts above explain it is simply a part of your Proficiency.
Not also that that +1 per level portion of your Proficiency is also factored into: AC, Skill Bonuses, Saving Throws, Perception Checks,and others.
Right. The difference in progression between classes comes in their proficiency with the relevant weapons. Fighters end up walking around with a higher proficiency level in their weapons than other martial classes, who end up with higher proficiency levels than casters.
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So everyone gets the same base attack bonus by level?
No. You really need to consider reading the book. It sounds like you're missing some fundamentals and asking for specifics that depend on those to make sense. I mean that in a friendly way.
If by "attack bonus" you mean "the number I add to my d20", no. If you even mean "everything except my Strength/Dex modifier", still no.
Proficiency is a thing that has degrees. A character is proficient at <something> to a certain degree. UTEML. Untrained, Trained, Expert, Master, Legendary. A character can be untrained at using a sword but be legendary at using a hammer. Their "attack bonus" would be their level plus their proficiency modifier based on UTEML. Plus their Strength/Dex modifier. Plus any other modifiers.
It's not the same as "base attack bonus" (BAB) from PF1 at all. It serves the same purpose, but attack bonus is now "how good am I at this?"
And the three-action-system means you get three actions per round to do with as you please. An attack is just one of the ways you can spend those three actions. You can attack, attack, attack, to get three attacks. (Note: there's a "multi-attack penalty" which imposes a -5 for each attack after your first in a round.)
Yes, as long as they are at least trained in the weapon. Plus 2, from being trained. (Everyone is trained in unarmed attack.)
Fighters benefit from starting at Expert, so get an extra +2.
As levels increase, the Martial classes get ahead by progressing in proficiency faster, but the non-martials don't fall as far behind as in 1e
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So everyone gets the same base attack bonus by level?Yes, +1 per level, for every class.
Note though it's not called Base Attack Bonus any longer.
Ugh. See, I'd say "no" (and did). Because that's not what it is. This feels like one of those questions that should've been answered with mu. Unask the question.
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Yeah, you really can't say +1 per level because if you're untrained at something you don't get your level to the calculation. Someone untrained in using an advanced weapon only adds their dex or strength (as appropriate for the weapon) and not their level.
So trying to do something your untrained in is virtually impossible after a few levels.
Well the book is 642 pages so I haven't read the whole thing yet.
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Well the book is 642 pages so I haven't read the whole thing yet.
I don't mean to be rude, but while it is a long book, the UTEML proficiency system is pretty core to basically everything. Your attacks, your skills, your saves, even the bonus you get for your spell DCs all involve this basis of the UTEML proficiency system. I can't imagine getting very far into any of it without going "How does proficiency work in this system?"
It doesn't compare it to 1e, though, and explain where it's similar and where different. I had the same thought on reading it, that, for trained, it's based of BAB= level. Gave me a point of familiarity for understanding the mechanics
FunkamusPrime has been making instructional videos about PF2. He posted about the serives at Basics of Pathfinder YouTube Series (Basics For Gamers). They would be good for people who prefer to watch and listen rather than read.
Most of them are at a less basic level than the basics of proficiency. The most basic one I spotted was Pathfinder (2e): Basics of Initiative and Surprise. The initiative system changed slightly in PF2.
It doesn't compare it to 1e, though, and explain where it's similar and where different. I had the same thought on reading it, that, for trained, it's based of BAB= level. Gave me a point of familiarity for understanding the mechanics
You can compare it that way, but it's really a misleading comparison.
There is no BAB anymore in the system. It's not a requirement.
Requirements that used to be based on BAB would be replaced with proficiency requirement in the task.
Also, the bonus from proficiency is (almost) never equal to your level.
Untrained you don't add your level at all.
Trained and the other levels add level +2 (or more).
The only time you add your level is to skills if you're level 7 and have Untrained Improviser feat. I don't know of any other way.
But yes, you could say that the proficiency system is analogous to the old BAB system, but gets applied to Attacks/Saves/AC/Spell DCs/Skills.
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Well the book is 642 pages so I haven't read the whole thing yet.
I hear you. I really do.
If there's one thing I think Paizo got really right with this book is that if you start at page 1 and read the character creation chapter, you'll learn the essentials of the system.
Seriously. Don't dip into various areas trying to infer things. Don't read the wizard or the fighter or the magic items and expect to understand what you're reading, even if those are the things that interest you the most.
Read the first chapter, because it's been excellently written very well to teach the fundamentals. Then you're equipped to dip and read whatever feels interesting to you and most or all of it will make perfect sense.
And this is from a guy who's not sold on the system in general and may not end up playing it long-term. I may not be a fan of what the chef cooked, but I will unhesitatingly volunteer the preparation is excellent.