Mage Hand


Rules Questions


Hi all,

I'm looking for some generalization because the book really don't have specificity.

With the Mage Hand Spell:

1) Would one be able to pick up a potion of like cure light wounds and move it to a pour it in the mouth of an unconscious ally? In my mind, the mage hand would be able to pick up the potion and move it to the person BUT NOT pour it (or use intrinic functions).

2) Would a mage hand be able to grab an item from someones hand? In my mind, I would think not because that would be like a grapple.

Anyone have any input/thoughts on that?


A potion is a magic item. Mage Hand can't affect it. If an item is held, it is attended. Mage Hand can't affect it.

Mage Hand

The target line: "one nonmagical, unattended object weighing up to 5 lbs."


Ringtail wrote:

A potion is a magic item. Mage Hand can't affect it. If an item is held, it is attended. Mage Hand can't affect it.

Mage Hand

The target line: "one nonmagical, unattended object weighing up to 5 lbs."

Excellent point!

What about the grabbing? Or would that be associated with "unattended object"?


You cannot use Mage Hand to effect an object being worn by, acitvely used by, or held by another person since those objects are considered "attended". So you cannot use the cantrip to grab an object from another's possession. If you wanted fine manipulation with an affect similar to Mage Hand, however, you should see the Arcane Trickster PC. It has a (SU) ability called "Ranged Legerdemain" which allows you to use an affect similar to Mage Hand for Disable Device and Slight of Hand.

The "Steal" combat manuever from the APG and PRD allows to take an item from another with a CMB check in combat, while the Slight of Hand skill will allow you to take something from someone who isn't aware of you. Those would be the methods you would want to look at for taking something from another.


Ringtail wrote:

A potion is a magic item. Mage Hand can't affect it. If an item is held, it is attended. Mage Hand can't affect it.

Mage Hand

The target line: "one nonmagical, unattended object weighing up to 5 lbs."

Playing a devil's advocate here...the magic item is the liquid. The potion would be in some sort of container.

So in that sense would the mage hand be able to pick up that container that has the magic in it? Ot would/is the whole thing considered magical?

I could definitely understand attending to pick up a magical sword and the mage hand's inability to do that.


Under the physical description of a potion the PRD describes the container as well, implying (to me at least) that it is considered a single item. I could easily see GMs ruling it either way though, and as a player would find sound logic in either line of reasoning. However I would encourage considering it a magic item so you don't run into unexpected problems down the road with spells like Shatter or Polymorph Any Object.


For sake of arguments lets say you can mage hand a potion. How are you going to open it at range?


Ringtail wrote:
However I would encourage considering it a magic item so you don't run into unexpected problems down the road with spells like Shatter or Polymorph Any Object.

Agreed.. we don't need the mage hander swiping the magical longsword off a Fighter's belt because the scabbard isn't magical.

I've treated it as the whole deal is magical, the liquid and the container. As Ringtail said, there could be some funny results (with Mage Hand and some other spells) if you choose to spit hairs on the constructions of objects in that way.

Keep in mind it's a level 0 spell, what you're looking for is the spell Telekinesis.

Tiny Coffee Golem wrote:
For sake of arguments lets say you can mage hand a potion. How are you going to open it at range?

Crack the end of the spout on the ground on the ground and skillfully lift it so only a minimal amount spills?


Stynkk wrote:
Ringtail wrote:
However I would encourage considering it a magic item so you don't run into unexpected problems down the road with spells like Shatter or Polymorph Any Object.

Agreed.. we don't need the mage hander swiping the magical longsword off a Fighter's belt because the scabbard isn't magical.

I've treated it as the whole deal is magical, the liquid and the container. As Ringtail said, there could be some funny results (with Mage Hand and some other spells) if you choose to spit hairs on the constructions of objects in that way.

Keep in mind it's a level 0 spell, what you're looking for is the spell Telekinesis.

Tiny Coffee Golem wrote:
For sake of arguments lets say you can mage hand a potion. How are you going to open it at range?
Crack the end of the spout on the ground on the ground and skillfully lift it so only a minimal amount spills?

The mage hand reference are purposeful and not telekinesis. :-) But interesting discussion none the less.

With what Tiny Coffee Golem mentioned:

Tiny Coffee Golem wrote:
For sake of arguments lets say you can mage hand a potion. How are you going to open it at range?

It the mage hand can perform intricate functions why wouldn't/couldn't it use the move action to open it?

I think as RingTail mentioned, I think it would be a GM decision/ruling but it has to be consistently applied and utilitized.

Liberty's Edge

Teflef wrote:
Anyone have any input/thoughts on that?

As others have mentioned, mage hand doesn't work with magic items. I think the distinction, if it exists, between container and liquid is too fine for my thinking. It starts to get really grey if you were to tie a string around the potion and move the string. But, the spell is a cantrip; at some point that has to have some consideration in limiting use.

I will, however, share a tactic that my daughter used to use in low level games. Warning: what follows is unabashed geek parent pride, as she came up with this as an 8 or 9 year old and used it frequently to good effect. Grease to disarm opponent, followed by mage hand to slide the weapon away to avoid rearming. Or, fighter disarms and then wizard mage hands the weapon away. It only works with non magical weapons below five pounds, but is amusing as all get out. :)


To avoid munchkining we used to rule that mage hand simply could not be used in combat. But that created its own issues, so we are back to ruling on a case by case basis.

I like the grease/mage hand combo and would have no problem with that in my games.

I would probably rule that a typical stoppered potion bottle requires more than five pounds of force to remove the stopper, and that if you break it on the ground, you lose the potion. Of course that's all moot because I wouldn't allow moving or manipulating a potion anyway, I consider the container to also be magical for this purpose. If a player tried to argue that containers for magical items didn't take on the magic of their contents I'd argue that magical bows would not be able to impart their magic to normal arrows.

Probably the most ingenious attempt to use mage hand was by a wizard who attempted to use it to steal an opposing caster's spell component pouch. Clever.


Magehand is mostly a flavor spell. It's mainly for getting one's coat off a coatrack in dramatic fashion.

Liberty's Edge

Tiny Coffee Golem wrote:
Magehand is mostly a flavor spell. It's mainly for getting one's coat off a coatrack in dramatic fashion.

And let us not forget it is awesome for a chess-playing wizard.


Tiny Coffee Golem wrote:
Magehand is mostly a flavor spell. It's mainly for getting one's coat off a coatrack in dramatic fashion.

Actually, kinda good for finding traps or triggering traps. It might be a lower level but it has some value for things such as that. :-)

The Exchange

Quote:
Magehand is mostly a flavor spell. It's mainly for getting one's coat off a coatrack in dramatic fashion.

... And for getting the jail cell keys off the hook without having to rely on that scruffy little dog, a bone, and your Handle Animal Skill... ;)

For pouring potions, try the new Scoop cantrip in the Ultimate Cantrips blog article - you'd need to pour the potion into the 'scoop' first, but could then fly it over to your buddy to pour between his lips.

Grand Lodge

ProfPotts wrote:
Quote:
Magehand is mostly a flavor spell. It's mainly for getting one's coat off a coatrack in dramatic fashion.
... And for getting the jail cell keys off the hook without having to rely on that scruffy little dog, a bone, and your Handle Animal Skill... ;)

All sorts of good stuff like that but you can even 'goose' one of the Ladies in Waiting with it at an opportune moment, as one person said, use it to set of traps and just look cool being a caster. You can use it to carry a light source into a risky area if you suspect an ambush and so on. One of those cool spells that can be used for many many things... including extending the 'magical' bridge so that you don't need to swing across a chasm with a girl who turns out to be your sister...

Carrying unlit oil to dangerous area is a goodie for this and spells like unseen servant. You lay down an area of grease that a flaming arrow etc can use to create a BBQ of enemies.

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