Glimpse of Redemption and Redeemer Champion Codes?


Rules Discussion


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One of my players is playing a Redeemer Champion, and getting good use out of "Glimpse of Redemption" which forces an enemy to choose between losing their damage on an attack or being Enfeebled afterwards.

The ability is fine, my question is with the flavor text which states that the enemy is distracted by the weight of their sins. This would imply that the ability would not work on (for example) animals who are just hungry not evil; constructs who don't percieve evil; mind controlled individuals who already know what they are doing is wrong; and so on.

So far I have just allowed the PC to use the ability regardless because there's no indication that the flavor text is meant to limit the power, but there's more confusion with the Code for the Redeemer which says that they must allow enemies the opportunity to redeem themselves. This means that if this Champion is fighting, say, a Demon, then they can somehow try to let it redeem itself - and the fact that Glimpse of Redemption works on this apparently indicates that this is possible because if it wasn't there would be nothing for them to glimpse!

Is the text supposed to limit the power or is it just awkward flavor?


Seems that what you are looking for is an explanation for

"How does it work against creatures which are neutral"

Let us start by considering the rules:

Quote:

Glimpse of Redemption Reaction

Champion
Source Core Rulebook pg. 107
Trigger An enemy damages your ally, and both are within 15 feet of you.
Your foe hesitates under the weight of sin as visions of redemption play in their mind’s eye. The foe must choose one of the following options:
The ally is unharmed by the triggering damage.
The ally gains resistance to all damage against the triggering damage equal to 2 + your level. After the damaging effect is applied, the enemy becomes enfeebled 2 until the end of its next turn.

Glimpse of redempion doesn’t have any trait, so it is meant to work on anything.

-Mindless creatures with immunity to mental
-Neutral creatures
-Swarms
-Etc...

As for neutral creatures, it is the Redeemer which sets what is good or not, as a druid decides what harm nature or not.

If a hungry Lion attacks a friend of you, you will simply use your reaction to hold him back.

Remember that this is the same as thinking of mindless undeads. They just wander and kill, as any other predator.

And in this specific case, we have a dedicated oath for the champion. Which indirectly means that it is obvious that the reaction would work on unwilling creatures, or creatures with no will.

You could simply consider it like "they find themselves facing a a primordial fear, which could or not hold em"

In a more pratica way, the enemy target decides if he wants to get enfeebled 2 for the next round and have his dmg reduced, or simply forgo his dmg.

It is just a reaction.
Nothing else.
Stick too much with roleplay and interpretation, when rules are clear, just leave an opening for a homebrew rule.


I'm cool with that. I don't really want to limit the power. The problem is its interaction with the _other_ roleplay aspect of being a Redeemer Champion, which is the Code requirement to allow things a chance to redeem themselves.

Presumably, if someone can experience a "glimpse of redemption" then that implies they are reedemable and may even be easier to redeem as a result. Which seems to mean it could affect the roleplay aspects of the Code, which are presumably meant to be an important aspect of playing a Champion.


2 people marked this as a favorite.
hyphz wrote:

I'm cool with that. I don't really want to limit the power. The problem is its interaction with the _other_ roleplay aspect of being a Redeemer Champion, which is the Code requirement to allow things a chance to redeem themselves.

Presumably, if someone can experience a "glimpse of redemption" then that implies they are reedemable and may even be easier to redeem as a result. Which seems to mean it could affect the roleplay aspects of the Code, which are presumably meant to be an important aspect of playing a Champion.

If a creature decided to deal no damage, then maybe you should try talking to them.

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