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So, for Multiple Attack Penalty every action with [attack] trait counts, be it spell or strike. I got it.
But what if the action doesnt have a Attack trait?
Acid Splash, Cantrip: has Attack trait, therefore counts for MAP
But what about Black tentacles? its a Area conjuration that makes spell attacks, no attack trait... ? how does it work? 4-5 dudes in the area and my spell goes -0 -5 -10 -10 -10 ??? Do i get to choose primary targets? cuz after the second i cant see anyone getting hit by this spell (seriously, -10 only goes with a 19-20 on dice)
And non-attack spells that says "make a spell attack roll" but its not an attack, its just a conjuration that attack for itself. Does it count for MAP still?
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The absence of said rule is the rule, you do not apply MAP to those spells
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So, for Multiple Attack Penalty every action with [attack] trait counts, be it spell or strike. I got it.
But what if the action doesnt have a Attack trait?
Acid Splash, Cantrip: has Attack trait, therefore counts for MAP
But what about Black tentacles? its a Area conjuration that makes spell attacks, no attack trait... ? how does it work? 4-5 dudes in the area and my spell goes -0 -5 -10 -10 -10 ??? Do i get to choose primary targets? cuz after the second i cant see anyone getting hit by this spell (seriously, -10 only goes with a 19-20 on dice)
And non-attack spells that says "make a spell attack roll" but its not an attack, its just a conjuration that attack for itself. Does it count for MAP still?
It does say your spell attack rolls are affected by MAP and I can't find any exceptions, but it's not as dire as you think. That's a level 5 spell, which means your caster is probably not going to be lower than 9th level. A Wizard at level 9 has at least Expert Spellcaster, and so even without his attribute bonus you're looking at +13 on the roll.
But that's only a problem on the first turn you cast it. After that, it lasts 1 minute, attempting to grab (3d6 damage) whenever any creature ends its turn in the area who is not already grabbed, or deals 1d6 with no attack roll if they're already grabbed. MAP doesn't apply to attacks made when it's not your turn.
What other conjuration "non-attack" spells have you found that say "make a spell attack roll?" I don't believe summons use your spell attack roll, but have their own stats.
Still sucks, armor class goes up along with CR/level, so "+13" for a lv9 PC is just as good as a +8 for a lv4 and whatsoever... impossible to hit with a -10 penalty. a Lv 20 wizard will have the same difficulty to hit the monsters on their bracket.
And the spell without [attack] trait with spell attack roll is Tanglefoot, Cantrip.
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"Every check that has the attack trait counts toward your multiple attack penalty, including Strikes, spell attack rolls, certain skill actions like Shove, and many others."
"If you use an action with the attack trait more than once on the same turn, your attacks after the first take a penalty called a multiple attack penalty. Your second attack takes a –5 penalty, and any subsequent attacks take a –10 penalty."
Seems like MAP only applies to things with the "attack trait". Which would mean ignoring it for all else.
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BLACK TENTACLES SPELL 5
Conjuration
Traditions arcane, occult
Cast [three-actions] material, somatic, verbal
Range 120 feet; Area 20-foot burst adjacent to a flat surface
Duration 1 minute
Oily black tentacles rise up and attempt to Grapple each creature in the area. Make spell attack rolls against the Fortitude DC of each creature. Any creature you succeed against is grabbed and takes 3d6 bludgeoning damage. Whenever a creature ends its turn in the area, the tentacles attempt to grab that creature if they haven’t already, and they deal 1d6 bludgeoning damage to any creature already grabbed.
The tentacles’ Escape DC is equal to your spell DC. A creature can attack a tentacle in an attempt to release its grip. Its AC is equal to your spell DC, and it is destroyed if it takes 12 or more damage. Even if destroyed, additional tentacles continue to grow in the area until the duration ends. You can Dismiss the spell.
If Black Tentacles acts like the PF1 Black Tentacles, and I think the description matches it, threat it like summoned monsters rather than an attack spell. The spellcaster summons tentacles. The tentacles Grapple, which is an attack. The spellcaster does not attack. And each square of tentacles is a separate attacker, so unless the tentacles are attacking two creatures in the same square, they don't suffer MAP.