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So I needed clarification for how day jobs are calculated. So the way I interpreted the guide is that during each 8 day block you attempt a day job you get 1 check and the chart is what you get. For example, I am first level I succeed at my day job check so I get 5 cp.
When I played my first game the GM said that we were suppose to get the result (5 cp) for every day in the 8 day block. So in this instance I should have received 40 cp.
What is the right way to calculate the Day Job in 2E?
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The table is a per day result.
And to be accurate, it is downtime where the character earns income. Day job as a term is not in 2e.
The concept of day job is the same so thus this comment was not needed. It is the same thing. Where as you generate income during your down time.
Also as I stated the GUIDE was not clear in this aspect as the wording suggested otherwise. This isn’t just coming from my interpretation. As this is from several other people.
Paizo sometimes has a way of wording things where it means one thing and another is stated. This needs to be better clarified. Also an example wouldn’t hurt.
I wouldn’t be asking this if it was so clearly stated. The guide needs to be written for people who have never played can understand. Sometimes the guide is written in a way that if you played you understand and if you haven’t played you don’t understand.
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The table is a per day result.
And to be accurate, it is downtime where the character earns income. Day job as a term is not in 2e.
The concept of day job is the same so thus this comment was not needed. It is the same thing. Where as you generate income during your down time.
Also as I stated the GUIDE was not clear in this aspect as the wording suggested otherwise. This isn’t just coming from my interpretation. As this is from several other people.
Paizo sometimes has a way of wording things where it means one thing and another is stated. This needs to be better clarified. Also an example wouldn’t hurt.
I wouldn’t be asking this if it was so clearly stated. The guide needs to be written for people who have never played can understand. Sometimes the guide is written in a way that if you played you understand and if you haven’t played you don’t understand.
Day job is a mechanicism of 1e. 2e is a different game so we as a community need to change with the game or there will be confusion. That was the point of my comment. There is no day job check in 2e. It is earned income now.
As to people reading things differently, that has been around for a long time and no matter how carefully the words are chosen there will be people who read things differently.
The consciences on the board is that the result was for a single day and thus had to be multipled by 8.
The nice thing about how the guide is being presented lends itself to easier updates. We can offer suggestions to changes. The best suggestions include language on what would be a better wording for the area of concern.
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The table is a per day result.
And to be accurate, it is downtime where the character earns income. Day job as a term is not in 2e.
The concept of day job is the same so thus this comment was not needed. It is the same thing. Where as you generate income during your down time.
Also as I stated the GUIDE was not clear in this aspect as the wording suggested otherwise. This isn’t just coming from my interpretation. As this is from several other people.
Paizo sometimes has a way of wording things where it means one thing and another is stated. This needs to be better clarified. Also an example wouldn’t hurt.
I wouldn’t be asking this if it was so clearly stated. The guide needs to be written for people who have never played can understand. Sometimes the guide is written in a way that if you played you understand and if you haven’t played you don’t understand.
Day job is a mechanicism of 1e. 2e is a different game so we as a community need to change with the game or there will be confusion. That was the point of my comment. There is no day job check in 2e. It is earned income now.
As to people reading things differently, that has been around for a long time and no matter how carefully the words are chosen there will be people who read things differently.
The consciences on the board is that the result was for a single day and thus had to be multipled by 8.
The nice thing about how the guide is being presented lends itself to easier updates. We can offer suggestions to changes. The best suggestions include language on what would be a better wording for the area of concern.
It is still a day job. A job you during the day for x amount of days. No confusion, or at least from what I have seen and heard. Everyone still refers to it as a day job (clarify: everyone iI have spoken to and thus is not a problem). It’s the same thing at the end of the day. They just change the actual name.
Ok the point I am making is there is a way to make it so there is no confusion. Also if there is confusion on how to interpret then it is a problem that NEEDS to be fixed. By adding an example this eliminates any doubt. And seeing how the guide is online and a living document it can be updated more often and fixed when needed. Again there is a lot of ambiguity in the way it is written. Something like the guide should have NO ambiguity. Especially with something like a day job or earn income. There is a way to phrase it so there is no such ambiguity.
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It is still a day job. A job you during the day for x amount of days. No confusion, or at least from what I have seen and heard. Everyone still refers to it as a day job (clarify: everyone I have spoken to and thus is not a problem). It’s the same thing at the end of the day. They just change the actual name.
What everyone is doing is what we need to stop doing. 2e is a new game. We need to use the correct terms of the game. So please, don't call it a day job. It is Downtime and Earning Income. I already have players using 2e terms to express 1e play.
Ok the point I am making is there is a way to make it so there is no confusion. Also if there is confusion on how to interpret then it is a problem that NEEDS to be fixed. By adding an example this eliminates any doubt. And seeing how the guide is online and a living document it can be updated more often and fixed when needed. Again there is a lot of ambiguity in the way it is written. Something like the guide should have NO ambiguity. Especially with something like a day job or earn income. There is a way to phrase it so there is no such ambiguity.
Agree that we need an example. There is another point of concern with Earned Income and critical success that is being discussed in a different thread. To me, that is a bigger question because I can see both sides being valid.
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Again, if everyone already calls it that, then it isn’t counter intuitive. Also I never stated that the people I am citing from never played, so not sure where that came from.
Gary - get over yourself on this. It isn’t going to happen over night. Also I highly doubt people will just stop calling it a day job. I get it you don’t like calling that. Get over it already. That is not all the point of this post. If you can't stay on topic then do not post here.
Also your answer really wasn't any help nor answered the querstion. You simply stated the table is per day. Which did nothing to help other then to state what the CRB stated. The issue was what the guide stated. And how several of us did not iread it as such.
If everyone understands what is being discussed then no harm no foul. We are humans miskates happen. Trying to swap between to systems you are going to run into the things. I am sorry if we aren't perfect like you and can all do this on the fly. I still mix terminolgy and all between Pathfinder and Starfinder, but guess what it is irreleavent because it all is interchangeable.
When it becomes and issue when people don't understand what it is, then the correct terminology shall be utilize. But for the most part in this instance People will understand that Day job is income. it is literally the same thing, just with another term.
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Gary - get over yourself on this. It isn’t going to happen over night. Also I highly doubt people will just stop calling it a day job. I get it you don’t like calling that. Get over it already. That is not all the point of this post. If you can't stay on topic then do not post here.
Wow.. A little personal now.
We, as players, have to make the effort to change with the system. No where that I could find is "day job" used in the 2e guide. So to use that term, while understood by the older players like us, is confusing.
I know it will not happen quickly. I also know that if we don't make the effort to use the correct terms. This includes me... I catch myself using the incorrect terms all the time. It has to start somewhere and with someone. So let's start now. Day Job is not in 2e. Earned Income is. We need to start using the correct term.
Why, Michael, are you so bent out of shape? What is wrong with using the correct terms to express the correct system?
I will correct everyone when it comes to terms we use when talking about the games we play. We all have to speak clearly or there will be confusing. Especially for new players who did not play 1e and trying to find "Day Job" in the guide.
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Also your answer really wasn't any help nor answered the querstion. You simply stated the table is per day. Which did nothing to help other then to state what the CRB stated. The issue was what the guide stated. And how several of us did not i read it as such.
The table is a per day result.
My original comment was on target with the original post.
When you take on a job, the GM secretly sets the DC of your skill check. After your first day of work, you roll to determine your earnings. You gain an amount of income based on your result, the task’s level, and your proficiency rank (as listed on Table 4–2: Income Earned).
You can continue working at the task on subsequent days without needing to roll again. For each day you spend after the first, you earn the same amount as the first day, up until the task’s completion. The GM determines how long you can work at the task.
(emphasis mine)
The CRB defines the roll for Earned Income is determined on the first day and any other days earns the same amount until the the job is done. For most Pathfinders, this will be 8 days.
Earn Income: Earning Income is the most common Downtime activity. If you are using your Downtime for any other purposes, they must be completed first before you attempt your check to Earn Income. For each 8 day unit of Downtime you spend (including units where you complete multiple activities, such as spending 7 days retraining and then 1 day Earning Income), you attempt one check to Earn Income, using the result to calculate your total earnings for that block of Downtime.
The Guide references the Downtime activity, that is defined in the CRB, to determine the total earnings.
I have to agree that this can be confusing because of the example of doing different Downtime activities.
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Gary - get over yourself on this. It isn’t going to happen over night. Also I highly doubt people will just stop calling it a day job. I get it you don’t like calling that. Get over it already. That is not all the point of this post. If you can't stay on topic then do not post here.Wow.. A little personal now.
We, as players, have to make the effort to change with the system. No where that I could find is "day job" used in the 2e guide. So to use that term, while understood by the older players like us, is confusing.
I know it will not happen quickly. I also know that if we don't make the effort to use the correct terms. This includes me... I catch myself using the incorrect terms all the time. It has to start somewhere and with someone. So let's start now. Day Job is not in 2e. Earned Income is. We need to start using the correct term.
Why, Michael, are you so bent out of shape? What is wrong with using the correct terms to express the correct system?
I will correct everyone when it comes to terms we use when talking about the games we play. We all have to speak clearly or there will be confusing. Especially for new players who did not play 1e and trying to find "Day Job" in the guide.
I still stick my decision. It is the same things an thus I will reference as such. If you have a problem with that then please leave. It isn’t confusing at all. I don’t understand why you say such things. The concept is the same, I don’t understand why you keep on so irrelevant. You call it what you call it, I call it what I call, guess what we know exactly what we are talking about. So again nothing is confusing. So I will ask nicely DROP IT.
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Also your answer really wasn't any help nor answered the querstion. You simply stated the table is per day. Which did nothing to help other then to state what the CRB stated. The issue was what the guide stated. And how several of us did not i read it as such.The table is a per day result.My original comment was on target with the original post.
When you take on a job, the GM secretly sets the DC of your skill check. After your first day of work, you roll to determine your earnings. You gain an amount of income based on your result, the task’s level, and your proficiency rank (as listed on Table 4–2: Income Earned).
You can continue working at the task on subsequent days without needing to roll again. For each day you spend after the first, you earn the same amount as the first day, up until the task’s completion. The GM determines how long you can work at the task.(emphasis mine)
The CRB defines the roll for Earned Income is determined on the first day and any other days earns the same amount until the the job is done. For most Pathfinders, this will be 8 days.
Earn Income: Earning Income is the most common Downtime activity. If you are using your Downtime for any other purposes, they must be completed first before you attempt your check to Earn Income. For each 8 day unit of Downtime you spend (including units where you complete multiple activities, such as spending 7
days retraining and then 1 day Earning Income), you attempt one check to Earn Income, using the result to calculate your total earnings for that block of Downtime.The Guide references the Downtime activity, that is defined in the CRB, to determine the total earnings.
I have to agree that this can be confusing because of the example of doing different Downtime activities.
So this is a better start, then your original post.
And people read the following:
you attempt one check to Earn Income, using the result to calculate your total earnings for that block of Downtime.
As the chart is the final gp amount. That has ambiguity to it. Cannot say it doesn’t when people read it multiple ways. They could have stated use the rules in the CRB but only for as many days as you have available. Generally 8 days. They threw unneeded information and over complicated it. Evidence by people interpreting it different. If there were any differences in how it is supposed to be handled in Society and the CRB. Not the first time Paizo has over complicated the process.
Or add an example and everything is fine.
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So I will ask nicely DROP IT.
Guess we have to just disagree.
The correct term for 2e is Earned Income not Day Job. We all have to speak the same language, even if we understand what is being communicated.
Anyone who asks to roll a day job at my table or in my lodge will be told No but they can attempt to earn income during their downtime.
That is best you will get from me.
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So I will ask nicely DROP IT.Guess we have to just disagree.
The correct term for 2e is Earned Income not Day Job. We all have to speak the same language, even if we understand what is being communicated.
Anyone who asks to roll a day job at my table or in my lodge will be told No but they can attempt to earn income during their downtime.
That is best you will get from me.
That really is obnoxious an ridiculous. I think you need to chill out and understand that is is just a game. That right there would be a turn off, that someone is so uptight over a simple term. Again you need to get over it. I can tell you that i am generally a huge stickler for correct terminology, but this is just plain petty.
How about say: “Ok that’s cool, but just remember it is called Earn Income.” The fact you are still continuing with some so irrelevant to the grand scheme of things really makes mew feel sorry for your lodge.
There are bigger issues with the game then terms that are very interchangeable. Again I will say this, maybe it will get through to you this time. First, we know what is being discussed so there is no confusion. So drop it, this isn’t the place to discuss this. Secondly you continue to harp on something that is off topic. KEEP this to the topic that was originally stated. If you wish to make this an issue then please make another post for this.
Also we don’t need to speak the same language if everyone is on the same page. That’s the beauty to all of this. If we are all on the same page then there is no issue. We can have a discussion. You clearly have made your point. I am not going to go out of my way to change because one person can’t get over themselves on something so irrelevant and meaningless.
If you have nothing more to say on the original then please stop responding.
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There is an example in the CRB in a side bar. Titled "Harsk Makes Tea". Don't know what page (I'm at work), but it's on the right side in the Earn Income section.
Again I will state this. THAT IS THE CRB. The guide does nothing in the earn income to suggest it is done the eaxct way or else the issue would have not been brought up. I don’t care what the CRB states if the guide suggests otherwise.
If they wanted it to be done the same way it would have stated that. And then through any exceptions with it. Now if that is there intent then it clearly needs to be updated, It is clear that the wording suggest ambiguity.
So I guess I need to state this: I understand the CRB, but that isn't the issue (as I stated before), the issue is the guide, which needs to have 0 ambiguity. Which is quite possible.
All I am doing is trying to get clarification and hopefully find where the issue is so it can corrected. Which so far this concept of a living document hasn’t been any better that previous years. It still isn’t being updated in a timely matter. Nor is it fully ready as there are still some things missing. Suggesting 2E and se Society isn’t ready for release. Which from what I have seen is already a huge turn off. From both 2E and 2E Society. But another topic for another time.
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The Guide specifically points at the CRB-
A character can use Downtime in a variety of ways, including the Crafting, Earn Income, and retraining options in the Pathfinder Core Rulebook. Downtime must be spent at the end of the session or it expires; it cannot be stockpiled for later use. (See Downtime.) However, players can spend their Downtime to start or continue an activity such as Crafting an item that requires multiple adventures’ worth of Downtime to complete.
Nothing in the Downtime rules overwrites the CRB, though additional clarifications are included to specify how GM-facing modifiers (level of task, how long you can work at the task, etc.) should be ruled to ensure everyone is experiencing the process the same way. You make one roll for Earn Income at whatever point in your up to 8 day cycle you begin Earning Income, and then apply that result to all the remaining days in cycle. So a successful Earn Income check at task level 1, granting 2 sp a day, grants 16 sp for a full 8-day cycle.
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Quick question while you're here: if you've completed a Quest, which only grants 2 days of Downtime, can you use those 2 days for Earn Income?
Or do you need an 8-day "block"?
Currently, the way the Guide is worded, it seems you need an 8-day block, even if only 1 of those days is being used for Earning Income.
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Quick question while you're here: if you've completed a Quest, which only grants 2 days of Downtime, can you use those 2 days for Earn Income?
Or do you need an 8-day "block"?
The time blocks are in "up to" 8 day units, with the caveat that once you start your Earn Income you've committed to the task for all of the available unit. So if all you have is 2 days, you can Earn Income for just those two days and then that activity ends; it doesn't carry your Earn Income check over to a new adventure.
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If 2 days isn’t enough to earn income, What can you do with 2 days?
Michael clarified that you *can* use Downtime from a Quest to Earn Income. I agree it's been a disputed point thus far.
The other option, which I did with my character when it wasn't clear whether you could Earn Income, was start Crafting. Those 2 days carry over to the next adventure.
When I completed my next scenario, I was able to actually craft for 6 days. Next scenario I'll finally be able to craft for the full 8.
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That really is obnoxious an ridiculous. I think you need to chill out and understand that is is just a game. That right there would be a turn off, that someone is so uptight over a simple term. Again you need to get over it. I can tell you that i am generally a huge stickler for correct terminology, but this is just plain petty.
How about say: “Ok that’s cool, but just remember it is called Earn Income.” The fact you are still continuing with some so irrelevant to the grand scheme of things really makes mew feel sorry for your lodge.
Seems like we are both uptight over a simple term. If you take your advice than I will too.
As for my lodge, they all know that they can step up and take the position at any time.
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The Guide specifically points at the CRB-
Nothing in the Downtime rules overwrites the CRB, though additional clarifications are included to specify how GM-facing modifiers (level of task, how long you can work at the task, etc.) should be ruled to ensure everyone is experiencing the process the same way. You make one roll for Earn Income at whatever point in your up to 8 day cycle you begin Earning Income, and then apply that result to all the remaining days in cycle. So a successful Earn Income check at task level 1, granting 2 sp a day, grants 16 sp for a full 8-day cycle.
A character can use Downtime in a variety of ways, including the Crafting, Earn Income, and retraining options in the Pathfinder Core Rulebook. Downtime must be spent at the end of the session or it expires; it cannot be stockpiled for later use. (See Downtime.) However, players can spend their Downtime to start or continue an activity such as Crafting an item that requires multiple adventures’ worth of Downtime to complete.
Thank you for the clarification. Wasn’t expecting a dev to respond. Like I said it was just the way things were worded that suggested otherwise. The line I quotes earlier several of us saw that as modifying the CRB.
And that’s why I asked and wanted the clarification.