| Ravingdork |
The conjuration tag says that creatures summoned by summon spells are minions. The minion tag says that minions get two actions, provided you spend one of your own to command them.
All summon spells that I've seen thus far also need to be sustained, so you need to spend an action every round just to keep your summon from poofing.
Is that really the way it works? I have to spend two actions every round maintaining and commanding my summon, who themselves only gets two actions?
What am I missing? That seems borderline useless.
| cavernshark |
| 2 people marked this as a favorite. |
The conjuration tag says that creatures summoned by summon spells are minions. The minion tag says that minions get two actions, provided you spend one of your own to command them.
All summon spells that I've seen thus far also need to be sustained, so you need to spend an action every round just to keep your summon from poofing.
Is that really the way it works? I have to spend two actions every round maintaining and commanding my summon, who themselves only gets two actions?
What am I missing? That seems borderline useless.
You cast a summon, as a three action activity. The summon appears. It has the summoned trait. Per that trait, it immediately takes it two actions -- you have already paid the action cost for this round. It is also a minion. On subsequent rounds, per the minion trait, you must sustain the spell as a single action, which is usually a verbal action with the auditory and concentrate traits. The creature then takes its 2 actions as any minion. There is no second action to command - it is a part of the action to sustain the spell.
So, in short:
On round 1, you get effectively 5 actions -- 3 of your actions to summon, 2 for the summoned minion.
On round 2 and subsequent rounds, you effectively get 4 actions. You spend 1 of your actions to sustain the spell (-1), and then the minion takes 2 (+2), and you still have two to use (+2)
Source Core Rulebook pg. 637
A creature called by a conjuration spell or effect gains the summoned trait. A summoned creature can’t summon other creatures, create things of value, or cast spells that require a cost. It has the minion trait. If it tries to cast a spell of equal or higher level than the spell that summoned it, it overpowers the summoning magic, causing the summoned creature’s spell to fail and the summon spell to end. Otherwise, the summoned creature uses the standard abilities for a creature of its kind. It generally attacks your enemies to the best of its abilities. If you can communicate with it, you can attempt to command it, but the GM determines the degree to which it follows your commands.Immediately when you finish Casting the Spell, the summoned creature uses its 2 actions for that turn.Summoned creatures can be banished by various spells and effects. They are automatically banished if reduced to 0 Hit Points or if the spell that called them ends.
Source Core Rulebook pg. 634
Minions are creatures that directly serve another creature. A creature with this trait can use only 2 actions per turn and can’t use reactions. Your minion acts on your turn in combat, once per turn, when you spend an action to issue it commands. For an animal companion, you Command an Animal; for a minion that’s a spell or magic item effect, like a summoned minion, you Sustain a Spell or Sustain an Activation; if not otherwise specified, you issue a verbal command, a single action with the auditory and concentrate traits. If given no commands, minions use no actions except to defend themselves or to escape obvious harm. If left unattended for long enough, typically 1 minute, mindless minions usually don’t act, animals follow their instincts, and sapient minions act how they please.
| Perpdepog |
I'm not quite getting the one action over two action usage from your examples.
Also keep in mind that the summon trait says that your summons will "generally attack your enemies to the best of their ability." That could be taken to mean that your command action only tells your summon precisely what to do, not that it will do nothing if you don't command it.
| cavernshark |
| 1 person marked this as a favorite. |
I'm not quite getting the one action over two action usage from your examples.
Also keep in mind that the summon trait says that your summons will "generally attack your enemies to the best of their ability." That could be taken to mean that your command action only tells your summon precisely what to do, not that it will do nothing if you don't command it.
A generous GM might allow it, but the summoned creature is also a minion and the rules for minions are such that: "If given no commands, minions use no actions except to defend themselves or to escape obvious harm."
The "generally attack enemies to the best of their ability" probably means that the summoned creature won't refuse to use it's most powerful abilities and strongest attacks. You can summon and angel to fight an angel -- it's not going to refuse to fight at it's fullest if you give the command.
I was trying to show that the action economy for a summons isn't as bad as Ravingdork made it out to be. Usually a spellcaster would have 3 actions (ex. stride once with 1 action, cast a spell with two actions). While sustaining a summon spell (1 action), the minion will get 2 actions and the caster will still have 2 actions to cast another spell, stride and strike, stride and cast shield, etc. That player effectively has 4 actions split between the minion and the character even after paying the action cost to sustain the spell.
| Perpdepog |
I got what you were going for, I am just being a dummy and not getting where in your examples it says that you can command and sustain with the same action.
I'm basing most of my thinking about how uncommanded minions might work off of that last line, though now I'm seeing the bit about them being left unattended, so nvm on that.
| cavernshark |
I got what you were going for, I am just being a dummy and not getting where in your examples it says that you can command and sustain with the same action.
I'm basing most of my thinking about how uncommanded minions might work off of that last line, though now I'm seeing the bit about them being left unattended, so nvm on that.
Source Core Rulebook pg. 304
If the spell’s duration is “sustained,” it lasts until the end of your next turn unless you use a Sustain a Spell action on that turn to extend the duration of that spell
The description under minion tells us that the action to sustain the summon is a single action verbal command, unless the spell tells us otherwise. They are not two different things in this case, the second clause just modifies the sustain a spell action by giving it the auditory and concentrate traits. This just tells us how sustaining the summon might interact with other rules (e.g. a raging barbarian can't sustain without mad magic, a deaf summoner may fail the action, and a deaf minion can't be commanded)