Cleric of *ascended wizard* (archetype help?)

[Xelah]

Right, so we played a mythic game. My wizard character hit 20 and can grant spells now. We started a new game.

Pondering how/why the wizard would just give out spells, it often occurred to me that she wouldn't as she doesn't have a particularly high opinion of CHA based casters and feels that most WIS based casters have cheated their way into power. After all, she studied and learned how to do it herself, meanwhile the other two stats are either making it up as they go or serving something else. She'd be more inclined to work with someone who was already working on their own who had similar goals.

Requirements:

• Alignment - Any Lawful
  
• Int based arcane spell casting class - 3 levels

Features:

• Changes casting stat for cleric to INT
  
• Cleric spells must now be recorded in a prayer book like wizard spells and are learned the same way

That's literally it. Fluff-wise, wizard-deity-thing seeks out other wizards (or witch or magus, but less likely) and unlocks access to divine power, but they still have to figure it out on their own.

If you haven't guessed, this is entirely a setup to go into mystic theurge at level 7. One of the guys at my table is taking extreme issue with the spell casting class requirement calling it a violation of both rules as written and intended... and while I haven't seen any rules about homebrew archetypes anywhere, he has at least pointed out that other archetypes don't have class requirements, prestige classes do. I personally find that argument silly, as I'm the one writing what my old character's religion works to accomplish and how they would go about it. If you want int based divine casting with full progression on it, prove you can manage to keep arcane power under control first.

I don't see the problem. Despite this, I will at least post here and ask if anyone has a better idea on how to express the wizard's intentions toward followers. Int for divine spells, but prove you're capable before you're given access to any of it. That's the general idea.

[Magda Luckbender]

Seems like a fine setup! I'd play a cleric of your retired Wizard!

As to the convenient setup for Mystic Theurge, that also sounds totally reasonable. Even such an optimized Mystic Theurge would be weak compared to a single class spell caster.

[Egeslean05]

I kind of agree with the guy at your table. It doesn't make much sense for a normal class, and as I was looking at this I found myself wondering if this was suppose to be a prestige class.

As far as I know, you can have as many prestige classes as you want (as long as you meet the requirements for each), so if you want to put class prerequisites/requirements in it, just make it a prestige class. It keeps it consistent with the rest of the game.

Alignment restrictions are basically worthless as they are right now. They use to be used as a 'balance' of sorts (how effective it was is debatable), but they're just leftovers now.

[Artofregicide]

Seems like you've custom tailored this specifically to get around the MAD drawback of a mystic theurge. Admittedly, it's still probably weaker than a properly built wizard or cleric, but reminds of 3.5 where you'd take archivist and wizard.

The guy at your table is totally right, and while it isn't the biggest deal, I'd make sure the whole table is cool with this before you meander deep into homebrew land.

[Coidzor]

Xelah wrote:

Right, so we played a mythic game. My wizard character hit 20 and can grant spells now. We started a new game.

Pondering how/why the wizard would just give out spells, it often occurred to me that she wouldn't as she doesn't have a particularly high opinion of CHA based casters and feels that most WIS based casters have cheated their way into power.

Well, why did they become a godling in the first place?

Do they need worshipers to ascend the divine ranks? Do they have an interest in doing so or a need to do so?

[blahpers]

Artofregicide wrote:

Seems like you've custom tailored this specifically to get around the MAD drawback of a mystic theurge.

Yep. Not that there's anything wrong with that, but best to be honest about it.

[Java Man]

I would be tempted to do this as a wizard archetype, trade the arcane bond and school for a domain and a few cleric spells added to the class list. Or some such.

[glass]

Maybe an archetype for the Kobold Press's Theurge class would go down better?

_
glass.

[Meirril]

I'm just going to point out that there are no sources of Divine Spellbooks. The only written source of divine spells are scrolls. You could allow the clerics of this archetype to use arcane sources but for a lot of cleric spells there is no arcane class that can cast them.

Also as written, the clerics of this religion gain no spells when they go up a level. Wizards automatically gain 2 spells each time they level. If you don't write it in, clerics of this religion would be very weak.

Also clerics of this religion would be very poor. A lot of standard cleric type spells require expensive components. It isn't strange to have a cleric that carries several thousand in components. More than a typical wizard of the same level. Also clerics generally need to pay for armor, shield, and weapon while most wizards skimp on all three. Having to pay to scribe spells is going to be a huge burden.

Also there would be practically no NPC clerics of this religion! The entry level is to be a 4th level character and there are very few 4th+ level NPCs in any campaign setting.

My alternative Archetype would go something like this:

Follower of the Arcane

All knowledge skills are considered class skills.
Followers must have a lawful alignment.

Spell Casting: Follower's spell casting ability is based off Int instead of Wis. Followers are subject to Arcane Spell Failure on all spells they cast.

Domains: This cleric receives the Wizard domain and no other domains.

Wizard domain: The Follower is trained in the arcane arts. The follower keeps a spellbook (as per Wizard), and records arcane spells in it from the Wizard list (as a wizard). When the Follower gains a level they may record 2 wizard spells in the spellbook of a level they can cast for free.

When the Follower prepares spells at the beginning of the day the follower's domain spells are selected from the follower's spellbook. A Follower may not prepare spells from other spellbooks, only his own. A Follower receives no 0 level domain spells, but may prepare a cantrip from his spellbook as a 1st level spell.

1st level Domain Power: Universal Cantrip: The Follower may cast any Wizard cantrip Int mod +3 times per day. The Follower need not have the cantrip in his spellbook to use it.

8th level Domain Power: Expanded Spell Power: When preparing spells for the day an 8th level Follower may prepare level/2 + int mod additional levels worth of domain spells. The follower may not prepare more than 4 domain spells of any spell level.

Example: Marcus a 9th level Follower with an 20 Int may prepare one domain spell from levels 1st to 5th, plus another (4+5) 9 levels worth of extra domain spells. He may select to learn 3 Mirror Image and 1 See Invisibility as domain spells, but he may not learn a 5th 2nd level spell as a domain spell for today even though he has only used 6 of his 9 levels in bonus domain spells for the day. He will have to spend his remaining 3 levels worth of spells on something else.