To answer this question we have to ask it better: does presission damage become the same damage type of its sourse damage, or is it its own type?
So if I use a piercing weapon to make a sneak attack, are they both subject to Dr/piercing or just the weapon damage?
If the answer is just the weapon damage then by virtue only the spell damage is subject to the save for half.
So then yes, it would be subject to the half on save.
Stab someone with a dagger and both the base dagger damage and the precision damage is piercing damage. The above posters are correct as well.
if you use a shocking grasp spell with sneak attack at 2nd level (sorc 1/rogue 1) you'd get a total of 2d6 electric damage. if you roll 2+3 on your dice, it totals 5. if the subject has DR/electricity 5 then you do 0 damage. if you roll 4+6 you'd do 5. it is still subject to DR just like the spell damage is.
if you use a shocking grasp spell with sneak attack at 2nd level (sorc 1/rogue 1) you'd get a total of 2d6 electric damage. if you roll 2+3 on your dice, it totals 5. if the subject has DR/electricity 5 then you do 0 damage. if you roll 4+6 you'd do 5. it is still subject to DR just like the spell damage is.
Actually, DR/electricity means that electricity bypasses it completely (just like DR/adamantine means an adamantine [or adamantine-equivalent] weapon bypasses the DR). So in the examples you give, you'd do 5 damage and 10 damage respectively.
Generally speaking, energy damage - fire, cold, acid, and electricity - always bypasses DR, even if they're mundane (non-magical) in nature.
There's generally no such thing as DR/electricity. As you say, energy damage bypasses DR. What it does not bypass, and what the above posters probably meant when they were saying DR in regards to energy damage, is resistance.
I was in fact meaning to say damage resistance 5 to electricity. Sorry for the misunderstanding.
Uggg! I was tired yesterday...you knew what I meant!
So then yes, it would be subject to the half on save.But most spells that allow precision damage don't allow saves anyway. i.e. Ray of Frost.
But some do. i.e. Disintegrate...and the OP asked what if it did allow a save.
It is just one of those things.
Like when someone talks about their "Rouge" PC, and not their Rogue PC.
Seems like they talking about a drag queen PC.
I have a drag queen player, does that count?
He actually plays one of the scariest, most masculine characters I've ever encountered.
Rouges are overpowdered.
This is one of the most funny things i have read all day.
wait
then what exactly does the feat Sacred Sneak Attack do?
General Rule: Sneak Attack is the same damage type as the means of attack (weapon, spell, claw, etc.)
Specific Rule (with Feat): Sneak Attack damage is treated as Good-aligned, but the base damage is not.
Specific trumps General when it applies.
wait
then what exactly does the feat Sacred Sneak Attack do?
Allows your sneak attack damage to penetrate DR but not your weapon damage.
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wait
then what exactly does the feat Sacred Sneak Attack do?
Only the Sneak Damage is Good.
If they have DR Good, then the Sneak would go thru and only the normal weapon damage in excess of the DR would go thru.
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But some do. i.e. Disintegrate...and the OP asked what if it did allow a save.So then yes, it would be subject to the half on save.But most spells that allow precision damage don't allow saves anyway. i.e. Ray of Frost.
I've always played that sneak attack damage is added to the post-save damage - say a caster level 14 guy with 6d6 sneak attack casts disintegrate as a sneak attack - he gets 28+6=34d6 damage on a failed save and 5+6=11d6 damage on a successful save.
Lamontius, reading that feat it looks as though it makes your sneak attack damage by itself good aligned, which is a bit odd. I suppose it is useful in some situations - imagine a rapier wielding rogue fighting something with DR 15/good - normally he would do d6+str+magic+sneak attack, all - 15, but with the feat he would do d6+str+magic-15, +full sneak attack, which might be a little more. Still seems a bit crummy as a feat. Except on further exmination it's a rogue talent...meh. Like many rogue talents it's very meh.
Why wouldn't you just buy an oil of Align Weapon or some other such non-costly solution, then?
Why wouldn't you just buy an oil of Align Weapon or some other such non-costly solution, then?
Most might, but it's AN option, not the only one. They're coming out with a LOT of books. They got to put something in them...
EDIT: There's also economy of action...You don't have to spend a round pulling out and applying an oil and can just get to evil slaying with the feat.
pretty much, yeah
wait
then what exactly does the feat Sacred Sneak Attack do?
EDIT: Rogue Talent, not a feat
What he's asking is, how would that be necessary?
Say, you do 1d6+5 base weapon damage and 5d6 Sneak. The target has DR 5/Good. The common interpretation is that you total the 1d6+5 with the 5d6, then subtract the DR once. So 6d6+5 damage, minus 5 from DR. Now what does Sacred Sneak Attack do? It makes the 5d6 Sneak dice Good aligned so it penetrates DR/Good, but not the base weapon damage. But wait, why bother if the DR 5 only subtracted once from the total of 6d6+5? Now, if the 1d6+5 and the 5d6 were separately subject to DR, then the talent has a purpose; it avoids the reduction applied to the Sneak dice only. But JB already said that this isn't the case; Sneak Attack is, apparently "part of" the weapon damage. So what, exactly, is the purpose of Sacred Sneak Attack if the Sneak dice doesn't get tagged "itself" by DR anyway?
Because if you were dealing with something with DR 20/good, the DR would only be able to "block" up to 11 points (1d6+5, assuming you rolled max) anyway. Similarly, if you did 1d6 instead of 1d6 +5, the DR 5 would only apply up to the amount of base damage you rolled.
So assume I rolled 30 points of sneak attack damage and 1 point of base damage, against a monster with DR 20/good.
Without that feat, I do 11 points of damage (31 -20). With that feat, I do 30 points of damage. The DR blocks the base damage in its entirety but none of the sneak attack damage.
It becomes useless is what it does. The only purpose I see for this is if your weapon damage was say 1d4+0 and sneak attack was 6d6. You'd still get all your damage from sneak attack and never doing anything with the non-aligned weapon.
itt: a rogue talent for when you are facing creatures with DR 20/Good and a 1d4 damage weapon and no access to a 50gp oil?
I mean, this isn't exactly an old rogue talent...it came out wayyyy after Jason Bulmahn's post.
This talent would lead me to believe the opposite of his statement.
Either that, or you have a talent that is specifically designed for high-level play that also has little to no access to low-level magic items.
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Either that, or you have a talent that is specifically designed for high-level play that also has little to no access to low-level magic items.
First, it's pretty typical for rogues to be DEX-based, meaning no STR bonus to damage. So when a 10STR rapier-wielder is sneak attacking, they're just rolling Xd6. This talent says "only the first 1d6 is blocked, tops". That could be relevant even at like 4th level against DR 5, or around 8th-10th level with DR 10.
As for the oil, remember that opponents are flat-footed until they act. A rogue who finds themselves acting early will often want to take the opportunity for a sneak attack instead of spending that first turn using the oil.
Thanks Jiggy,
I think I understand the niche of this talent a bit better now, rather than viewing it as a RAI argument for applying DR to both weapon damage and SA damage in turn.