| Zwordsman |
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Heyo. Thanks for stopping by.
See bottom for defintions.
So, Aid doesn't specify any range on it. The only real specifications I can see is that you MUST explain to the GM how you're doing it and they determine if you can. So inherently there is no range. For Aiding an attack I assume there is Multiple attack penalty? Because it lists Attack Roll.. but it doesnt' call it out either way. (Is there MAP?)
So just by going off the Aid section it seems like I could Aid an ally's attack by using one action on my turn to prep and then my reaction on their turn when they attack. I would roll an Attack with DC 20 (unless adjusted) to provide Aid to that ally. Presumably applying all range penalties or MAP for the situation. Is this right?
But could you use Performance or Intimidate to Aid that attack and roll a skill instead of an attack? (Shouting out or otherwise distracting the enemy and providing an opening).?
Then we have Assiting Shot. Which, back in the playtest there was "assist" and "aid" as separate things. now only Aid exists. Back then Assisting specific called out melee attack or touch range (I forget). It also lowered enemy AC or raised Ally's AC. Aid does not have any of that verbage. Assiting shot only changeed "assist" to "aid" and changed nothing else in it.
Assisting shot seems to imply that you can only Aid within reach of your target. But Aid itself has no such rules. That text in Assiting Shot was needed in the playtest's Assist Action. However, with the current Aid does Assiting shot now add "Ghost rules" to Aid Action rules ?
That you can only do it within "reach" Reach isn't using the term "reach (as in weapon)" but just English reach. So how far is reach? Actual physical reaching? or first increment? (since the feat specifies "instead" and maximum range) of a ranged weapon?
Or is Assiting Shot an effective "Dead Feat" because it wasn't made for Aid Action?
As far as I can tell. Either it adds ghost rules, or it is a dead feat.
Either way I'm trying to figure this out to remake my Alchemist from the playtest. They used Darts and Assist (now aid) with Intimidate and bomb debuffs to help allies crit fish. (They also protected the allies. but Aid no longer does that)
Thanks for any thoughts on this.
aid
You try to help your ally with a task. To use this reaction, you must first prepare to help, usually by using an action during your turn. You must explain to the GM exactly how you’re trying to help, and they determine whether you can Aid your ally.
When you use your Aid reaction, attempt a skill check or attack roll of a type decided by the GM. The typical DC is 20, but the GM might adjust this DC for particularly hard or easy tasks. The GM can add any relevant traits to your preparatory action or to your Aid reaction depending on the situation, or even allow you to Aid checks other than skill checks and attack rolls.
Assisting Shot
With a quick shot, you interfere with a foe in combat. You can use the Aid action with a ranged weapon you wield. Instead of being within reach of the target, you must be within maximum range of the target. An Assisting Shot uses ammunition and incurs penalties just like any other attack.
| Zwordsman |
BUMP.
Especially if I make 2 Strikes and want to use my last action to Aid an ally Strike; is MAP going to be factored into DC?
Ah. Im pretty sure MAP won't be factored into anything. You Prep on your turn. But. You do not roll until the Reaction Action. WHich is outside of your turn.
"When you use your Aid reaction, attempt a skill check or attack roll of a type decided by the GM. "Under MAP section.
"The multiple attack penalty applies only during your turn, so you don’t have to keep track of it if you can perform an Attack of Opportunity or a similar reaction that lets you make a Strike on someone else’s turn."
So.. thats nice.
I've been looking stuff up more since i posted t his..
As near as I can tell, Assisting Shot is just a semi dead feat.
AID action has no range restriction to it, other than "reasonablly explainable and acceptible justification to the GM" basically.
Unless I missed something.
| masda_gib |
Reading Assisting Shot, I really think the "within reach for aiding with an attack" is missing in the Aid rules.
You are right with MAP appearantly not applying to Aid, Zwordsman. Which is nice, everything that encourages teamwork is good in my book.
| shroudb |
Tbf, I wouldn't accept Intimidation or Distracting with shouts/movement to be used to Aid an attack roll since those are basically Intimidate and Feint respectively.
But I agree. It seems like Aiding an Attack would require melee range if we go by Assisting Shot, but Aid action doesn't mention anything of that sort, probably an omission.
| Zwordsman |
I mean Feint and Intimidate are their own specific actions, With their own specific output. Aid is using something to provide the friend a bonus. Not the enemy a debuff. Different outputs to me.
Would you accept a Performance for catching their attention?
Since attack is an option for aiding an attack. its not much different of a situation since you're not actually attacking the target (As you're shooting at a DC (likely 20)).
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Yeah Assisting Shot is unchanged since the Playtest (Except for swithcing Assist to Aid--which I assume was done with a mass edit progam). While Aid was compeltely rewritten since then.
Since Aid doens't list it, I guess you're allowed to do it at anything reasonable (i.e. GM).
Which honestly is nice since it means its an action anyone can take with a bit of forethought and knowledge of their teammates. Which promotes interplay between players rather than a DPR race. Also the DC 20 with a crit success possible is thematically fun to me--because that means as you grow in skill, you grew more skillfull at cooperating with your teammates. As if they were a real group who spent XYZ amount of time in life and death situations and practicing on the off hours with each other.
| shroudb |
I mean Feint and Intimidate are their own specific actions, With their own specific output. Aid is using something to provide the friend a bonus. Not the enemy a debuff. Different outputs to me.
Would you accept a Performance for catching their attention?
Since attack is an option for aiding an attack. its not much different of a situation since you're not actually attacking the target (As you're shooting at a DC (likely 20)).
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Yeah Assisting Shot is unchanged since the Playtest (Except for swithcing Assist to Aid--which I assume was done with a mass edit progam). While Aid was compeltely rewritten since then.Since Aid doens't list it, I guess you're allowed to do it at anything reasonable (i.e. GM).
Which honestly is nice since it means its an action anyone can take with a bit of forethought and knowledge of their teammates. Which promotes interplay between players rather than a DPR race. Also the DC 20 with a crit success possible is thematically fun to me--because that means as you grow in skill, you grew more skillfull at cooperating with your teammates. As if they were a real group who spent XYZ amount of time in life and death situations and practicing on the off hours with each other.
Yes, and using the same skills and actions in order "to provide a bonus to ally instead of a penalty to the enemy" i think is completly outside of the scope of Aid.
"Using gestures/noise/etc" to distract an opponent (Feint) already has a clear defined effect. If you want a "different bonus" from basically the same action... too bad i guess.
what you want to achieve, and what the skill does, doesn't always align. For sure, what i would be looking is what the skill does, not what kind of bonus you want to eek out of it...
It would have to be something VERY specific for my table to accept a skill for Aid on an attack.