Homebrew Class Archetype (any spellcasting) : the Dabbler

[The Raven Black]

This was born from my frustration at not being able to create a PF2 character that would get Inspire Courage before 8th level without having to be a master of Occult spellcasting (aka Bard).

Though I originally envisioned it as a Bard Archetype, it can be applied to any spellcasting class.

Dabbler : whenever you would gain the ability to cast spells of a certain level as a class feature, gain a Class Feat instead.

I like that this will help with multiclassing too.

If you feel that gaining a Class Feat at 1st level would be too strong, a variant would be to apply Dabbler only after 1st level. The result IMO would be rather similar to a one-level dip in PF1 as far as casting is concerned, but whatever.

Note that I did not bother with creating a full Dedication and its corollary feats for this archetype. Which showed me a design constraint in PF2. The way Class Archetypes are described in the CRB, you have to use Dedication feats even when it is cumbersome.

I guess the Dabbler will be weaker than the base class, but not cripplingly so I hope and I feel it opens new possibilities for character builds.

What do you think ?

[Seisho]

So...you remove your spellcasting to get feats?

[The Raven Black]

Seisho wrote:

So...you remove your spellcasting to get feats?

Yes. Because I am not interested in playing a caster. Just in being able to Inspire Courage before 8th level.

Now that I had more time to consider how proficiencies work, getting better at some might be worth creating a Dedication feat with some follow-up, but I am reluctant to fiddle with such a core component of the balance between classes.

[cartmanbeck]

I actually don't understand how this would give you inspire courage at all. You gain inspire courage from a class feature, Composition Spells, not from a class feat. So getting access to class feats earlier won't help, will it? Am I missing something?

EDIT: Do you mean to have this let you get the Inspirational Performance multiclass feat earlier? Cuz it's a Feat 8... so you can't get it earlier than 8th level. Again, I feel like I'm missing a key component here. :-S

[The Raven Black]

cartmanbeck wrote:

I actually don't understand how this would give you inspire courage at all. You gain inspire courage from a class feature, Composition Spells, not from a class feat. So getting access to class feats earlier won't help, will it? Am I missing something?

EDIT: Do you mean to have this let you get the Inspirational Performance multiclass feat earlier? Cuz it's a Feat 8... so you can't get it earlier than 8th level. Again, I feel like I'm missing a key component here. :-S

This is an Archetype for spellcasting classes. So, here a Bard Archetype that does get Inspire Courage at level 1 ;-)

[cartmanbeck]

OH it's to REMOVE spellcasting from the Bard. I didn't get that.

Eh, not my cup of tea. I like spellcasting on the Bard. :)

[The Raven Black]

cartmanbeck wrote:

OH it's to REMOVE spellcasting from the Bard. I didn't get that.

Eh, not my cup of tea. I like spellcasting on the Bard. :)

I get that completely. This archetype is in fact a workaround to get abilities from casting classes that are not spellcasting and come online late if at all with MC ;-)

[Excaliburproxy]

I feel like this can be handled more cleanly with homebrewing a whole new class that gives bonuses.

Like: isn't a bard without spells and more feats kind of under-powered?