Okay, so one of my players has just reached level 18 and is thinking of taking the Summon Spirit witch hex. Asking me as to what she can do with it, I found myself rather confused by the lack of information in the description, as well as information available online, hence, I'm coming here for help. Namely, she's thinking of trying to use summon spirit on two characters that died in the previous session, a former PC and an antagonist.
1. Although it's not mentioned, if these characters have been looted, I'm assuming they current possess no equipment. Is this correct?
2. Are spirits called by this considered ghosts, as in the ghost template? Or are they spirits physically called back to this plane?
3. If the spirits are "killed," what happens? I'm inclined to think they just return to whatever outer plane they resided on, but I'm not sure.
Finally, I just want to know what experience people have had with this hex, so I can decide how exactly this will work.
First, let's get the source here:
"Summon Spirit (Sp): The witch calls forth the ghost of a humanoid creature with no more than 18 Hit Dice. The ghost has its own personality and desires, but is willing to bargain with the witch, as if she had cast greater planar ally. To seal an agreement with the witch, the ghost requires life energy equal to 1 temporary negative level (this is in addition to the standard payment for the ghost’s service). This negative level persists as long as the ghost remains in the service of the witch; the witch can end the agreement as a standard action, immediately removing the negative level." (bolding for emphasis)
1) It summons a ghost, not a physical body--it can't have physical equipment.
2) It specifically says they are ghosts, so they have the ghost template.
3) It functions as Greater Planar Ally, which is a Conjuration (Calling) spell:
"Calling: a calling spell transports a creature from another plane to the plane you are on. The spell grants the creature the one-time ability to return to its plane of origin, although the spell may limit the circumstances under which this is possible. Creatures who are called actually die when they are killed; they do not disappear and reform, as do those brought by a summoning spell (see below). The duration of a calling spell is instantaneous, which means that the called creature can't be dispelled." (bolding for emphasis)
So, they are destroyed.
Also note that there's no guarantee you'll get the person you want anyway. It functions as Greater Planar Ally:
"By casting this spell, you request your deity to send you an outsider (of 6 HD or less) of the deity's choice. If you serve no particular deity, the spell is a general plea answered by a creature sharing your philosophical alignment. If you know an individual creature's name, you may request that individual by speaking the name during the spell (though you might get a different creature anyway)." (bolding for emphasis)
All that's guaranteed is that you'll get an 18HD Humanoid Ghost--the GM can send whoever he wants.
Thanks for the clarification on the ghost template.
Regarding calling getting you what you want- I'm well aware of that. But I'm also not trying to screw the player over, which is why we're working it out.
It summons a ghost, not a physical body--it can't have physical equipment.
Wasn't there a rule in 3.5 that ghosts got to keep incorporeal versions of a limited number of their prized possessions? I mean, you'd expect to see a ghost apparate with at least some clothes on, and probably a grimoire if they were a wizard in life, or a holy symbol for a cleric.
It summons a ghost, not a physical body--it can't have physical equipment.Wasn't there a rule in 3.5 that ghosts got to keep incorporeal versions of a limited number of their prized possessions? I mean, you'd expect to see a ghost apparate with at least some clothes on, and probably a grimoire if they were a wizard in life, or a holy symbol for a cleric.
Yes, but it would have no mechanical effect of any kind.
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First, let's get the source here:
"Summon Spirit (Sp): The witch calls forth the ghost of a humanoid creature with no more than 18 Hit Dice. The ghost has its own personality and desires, but is willing to bargain with the witch, as if she had cast greater planar ally. To seal an agreement with the witch, the ghost requires life energy equal to 1 temporary negative level (this is in addition to the standard payment for the ghost’s service). This negative level persists as long as the ghost remains in the service of the witch; the witch can end the agreement as a standard action, immediately removing the negative level." (bolding for emphasis)
1) It summons a ghost, not a physical body--it can't have physical equipment.
2) It specifically says they are ghosts, so they have the ghost template.
3) It functions as Greater Planar Ally, which is a Conjuration (Calling) spell:
"Calling: a calling spell transports a creature from another plane to the plane you are on. The spell grants the creature the one-time ability to return to its plane of origin, although the spell may limit the circumstances under which this is possible. Creatures who are called actually die when they are killed; they do not disappear and reform, as do those brought by a summoning spell (see below). The duration of a calling spell is instantaneous, which means that the called creature can't be dispelled." (bolding for emphasis)
So, they are destroyed.
Also note that there's no guarantee you'll get the person you want anyway. It functions as Greater Planar Ally:
"By casting this spell, you request your deity to send you an outsider (of 6 HD or less) of the deity's choice. If you serve no particular deity, the spell is a general plea answered by a creature sharing your philosophical alignment. If you know an individual creature's name, you may request that individual by speaking the name during the spell (though you might get a different creature anyway)." (bolding for emphasis)
All that's...
You make some good points but miss out on a LOT of the details involved here.
1. Yes it is a calling spell and called creatures can be killed BUT all ghosts have the Rejuvenation ability so it doesn't matter. No matter what is done to them they simply reform unharmed in 1D4 days. (Unless the opponent does the one specific thing required to lay them to rest which is HIGHLY unlikely without massive research into the target ghost)
2. All ghosts CAN have equipment, anything that it highly valued in life it makes a copy of and carries with it when summoned.(Unless the originals are taken from their dead bodies). I have yet to meet a wizard who doesn't HIGHLY value their spellbooks, but it doesn't matter since you use this Hex to summon Sorcerers or creatures with spell-like/supernatural abilities and most of their spells require no components.
When a ghost is created, it retains incorporeal “copies” of any items that it particularly valued in life (provided the originals are not in another creature's possession). The equipment works normally for the ghost but passes harmlessly through material objects or creatures. A weapon of +1 or better magical enhancement, however, can harm material creatures, but any such attack deals only half as much damage (50%) unless it is a ghost touch weapon. A ghost can use shields or armor only if they have the ghost touch quality.
3. Yes you are correct that you aren't guaranteed to get the target of your summon when you use the hex BUT since there are no material components to this power and it only costs a standard action you can simply release this one and ask again.
It's like fishing, you just keep casting your lure in the water until you get the one you want (or something close enough).Most usage of this spell goes like this:
1. <Witch uses a standard action to summon a ghost>
2. Witch: Can you currently cast spell X,Y and/or Z or do you know anything about problem 1,2 or 3?
Ghost: No....
3. Witch: Next!!! <dismisses ghost>
4. <Return to step 1>
5. Ghost: Yes I can/know that.
6. Witch: Good, lets negotiate...
AND you are asking for a being who shares your philosophical alignment or is most likely your Patron who has a vested interest in you and your success so most times you should expect to either get what you want or a reasonably close facsimile.
Witches aren't Wizards, they can do this particular ability 7,200 times
a day with no cost. Eventually you WILL get what you want, the worst that can happen is you have to spend a bit of gold/time once you get a ghost who can do what you want (and if he asks to much just dismiss him and keep going until someone more reasonable shows up)
Revenge.
To be laid to rest.
To be taken to its loved ones so they can say "i love you" one last time.
To find out who murdered them and have them taken to justice.
For the quest they were on when they died, to be completed. With their
help. (What do you mean Smaug killed you?!?!)
To have their remains found, and buried in a manner as befits a king.
To find the thief who killed (and looted) it and have them brought to justice. And all of their belongings found. (to the last copper piece.)
And donated to their family. (or church, or whatever)
-S