Contingency and Shadow Evocation Greater.

[Chromantic Durgon <3]

Okay so I have a few questions about interactions between these two spells.

1) Can you use Shadow Evocation Greater to cast Contingency? I'm pretty sure this is a yes, as I can't see why not. Although of course you would still need the material component.

2) Can you use Shadow Evocation to cast spells to use in a contingency? For instance, Cleanse.

This one is a bit more complex, for two reasons.

A) Shadow Evocation Greater is level 8, Contingency is capped at 6th level spells, however, the spell that Shadow Evocation is being used to replicate is level 5.

B) Shadow Evocation Greater doesn't just target yourself which Contingency spells should do. But! Cleanse, the spell it is casting, again can target yourself!

In conclusion, I think 1 is a yes and 2 is a no.

But I keep going back and forth so I need help!

Help me you wise wise people!

[avr]

Yes you could duplicate contingency. There's no obvious reason you'd need the material component either, shadow evocation makes no mention of needing those.

The contingent spell is the spell you cast, and a greater shadow evocation fireball (or whatever) is not the same as a normal fireball. Unless you had some other exemption you couldn't fit an 8th level spell into contingency IMO.

[Pizza Lord]

I agree with avr. You can use greater shadow evocation to duplicate contingency.

The spell you cast, however, has to be 1/3rd your level or less (max 6th). So (assuming 6th) you can't use greater shadow evocation to duplicate a lower level spell. Similarly, you couldn't use a wish to do that (although I suppose you could wish to have a contingent spell of higher level than typically allowed). Also, if one caster class has a spell duplicating another class's but theirs is too high a level (ie. druid compared to cleric or sorcerer/wizard) then they can't use it, even though it's a duplicate of a lower level spell.

If you did use shadow evocation (which is low enough for contingency) for your contingent spell, the spell would follow the rules for shadow spells when triggered. Meaning it would only do 20% damage to you (which is an effect you aren't likely to have cast on yourself) or, more likely, any non-damaging effects will only have a 20% chance to actually occur (or be one-fifth as strong), like healing or such (since you are unlikely to believably be able to say you aren't aware that the shadow illusion you cast is not a shadow illusion).

[Allen Cohn]

I don't think one can duplicate Contingency with Greater Shadow Evocation.

Shadow Evocation says, "Non-damaging effects have normal effects except against those who disbelieve them. Against disbelievers, they have no effect." And the caster would automatically disbelieve their own casting of Greater Shadow Evocation because of the "proof" clause in the discussion of illusions.

[Belafon]

That is quite a thread necro...

The rules reason shadow x and other illusions can affect the caster has to do with how saving throws work.

CRB page 211 wrote:

A failed saving throw indicates that a character fails to notice something is amiss. A character faced with proof that an illusion isn’t real needs no saving throw.

CRB page 217 wrote:

Voluntarily Giving up a Saving Throw: A creature can voluntarily forego a saving throw and willingly accept a spell’s result. Even a character with a special resistance to magic can suppress this quality.

Even though you don't "need" a saving throw, you choose to make one anyway. And then voluntarily fail the saving throw.