Spells that say "ground" in description.


Rules Questions


Really quickly, "Ice spear". Can those come out of the ceiling if you are underground?


I assume you mean Ice Spears.

I'd allow it provided there is enough thickness to the ceiling, deep enough underground. It goes with the flavour of the spell.

The idea that, otherwise, one should research and develop another spell, that would have the wording "stalactite-like" for it to work doesn't work with what I understand spell research to be.

I also didn't give time to thinking of the potential of allowing it. If it turned out to be broken, I'd change my mind.


It'd only have a chance of knocking the target prone if they're standing on the surface the spear comes out of IMO, but sure.

Liberty's Edge

No, the spell says:
"A creature that occupies a square from which a spear extends (or that is within 10 feet of the ground below) takes 2d6 points of piercing damage and 2d6 points of cold damage per square", so its text clearly limits it to the ground, not ceiling, overhangs or whatever.


Since this is the rules forum Diego Rossi is probably correct. However Agénor and avr have already talked about how you could change this without breaking the game. Talk to your GM.


This might be doable in areas of subjective directional gravity, like the Plane of Air but otherwise, even in the effects of a reverse gravity I'd probably limit it to the ground.


Yeah its ground only. GM permission to alter that. Its certainly in keeping with theme but rules? No.

Still I as a GM wouldn't mind bending the rules slightly sometimes.


To me this looks like a case where the rules don't cover it because either due to lack of word count or lack of foresight it's not really covered in the text. The 'ground below' looks like an assumption that there wouldn't be ground somewhere else rather than a requirement.

So while a different GM could certainly rule otherwise I would rule that you could form spikes out of the ceiling of a cave.

Liberty's Edge

Besides the spell text, I have seen plenty of game and anime animations with ice growing from the ground and impaling people, never ice growing from the ceiling.
When a spear or ice or icicle came falling down, it comes from the sky.
You want to turn a ground-based effect meant to be used against targets walking of floating at low altitude in an anty aerial targets effect.
Worth a 1 point increase in spell level.

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