Hey, everyone!
Hello!
I'm mostly concerned about how to go about incorporating the at will shift attacks into the attack action. I currently am working under the understanding that a single shifted body part can attack twice (The only available natural attack for Frogs to gain, for example, is Bite, and it seems insane that Frog based shifters would be limited to a single natural attack), so I feel semi-safe with the double Croc tail slap. My main concern is whether I have to limit myself to either crocodile tail slap or lizardfolk tail slap. Ideally, I'd like the extra croc tail to shoot out just above the lizardfolk one.
Basically, it's assumed that you don't grow extra appendages if you already possess the natural attack, because otherwise you could easily end up with three pairs of arms before level 4 simply by stacking Claw attacks on top of each other.
So a shifter with the Frog aspect has the choice to switch out one of their normal Shifter Claws attacks for a bite attack, ending up with one Bite and one Claw attack.
As a Shifter with the Crocodile Aspect you have the option to switch out one of your claw attacks for one tail slap, and another of your claw attacks for one bite attack.
Your Shifter Tail Slap would not stack with the one from Dangerous Tail, which means your normal attack routine should look like this:
(BAB 6, Str Mod 5, Enhancement 1)
Full attack action (NORMAL):
Bite +12 (1d3+6),
2x Claw +12 (1d4+6),
Lizardfolk Tail Slap +7 (1d4+4)
Alternatively, is it possible to make the double shift go to foot claws or something instead? I'm mostly just running into the issue of doubling up on body parts here.
Claws goes on your hands, and Talons goes on your feet. The rest of the natural attacks are otherwise pretty straightforward (with the exception of Slam attacks).
So if you're not looking to actually transform into a Crocodile, maybe you should just take one level of Shifter with the Deinonychus, Falcon, or Owl aspects to gain Talon attacks.
Full attack action (NORMAL): Bite+11 1d3+6, 2xClaw+11 1d4+6, 2x Croc Tail Slap+11 1d4+6, Lizardfolk Tail Slap+6 1d4+4
That's not legal. According to the polymorph rules, "" CRB pg. 212
I currently am working under the understanding that a single shifted body part can attack twice
Body parts aren't actually the problem (a bite and a gore with horns on the same head work just fine alongside). Each attack form needs a seperate body part, though (e.g. for two tail slaps, you need two tails), with the exception being bonus attacks like from Haste (with haste, you could chose any of your legal natural attacks and make that one twice in a full attack).
In crocodile form, you have a bite, a tail slap, and the gore from Lesser Fiend Totem (which still works because it falls under the last part of the above rule quote). The Shifter's Claws class feature only works in natural form, not when using a polymorph effect (which Wild Shape counts as since it imitates a polymorph spell). Dangerous Tail is a natural attack of your original form and thus lost.
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I'm still a little confused at why a lizardfolk can't grow an extra tail for the slap, though, as (presumably) any other race that doesn't already have a tail would grow one wholesale.
A race with gore wont get a second gore either.
Nor will you gain a second head for a second bite, or 2 more arms for the 2 more claw attacks.If you have one of the existing attack forms you just get to pick which damage you'd rather use
I'm still a little confused at why a lizardfolk can't grow an extra tail for the slap, though, as (presumably) any other race that doesn't already have a tail would grow one wholesale.
I'm a little confused on what you mean. When you polymorph, you don't "grow" anything, you turn into that creature.
You don't grow a tail when selecting Dangerous Tail, either - the feat enhances your existing tail that you have from being a lizardfolk (the feat is lizardfolk only).You are kinda right because strict RAW, nothing explicitly limits your natural attacks attached to the same exact body part, so by very strict RAW, you could have two bites with the same mouth and three sets of claws with the same pair of hands or something. Of course, that's utterly ridiculous and absolutely no GM ever will allow you to do that. It's strongly implied (including by this FAQ, which Wonderstell already alluded to), but not outright stated. Note that Dangerous Tail is from a book mainly for GMs/NPCs, not players/PCs.
If you want more natural attacks, look at the Weretouched Shifter, the hybrid form makes an exception for using Shifter's Claws so you can have 5 primary natural attacks (with Deinonychus aspect) without the need to use munchkin s#!$ that is an express train to the "rocks fall you die" destination.
I'm still a little confused at why a lizardfolk can't grow an extra tail for the slap, though, as (presumably) any other race that doesn't already have a tail would grow one wholesale.I'm a little confused on what you mean. When you polymorph, you don't "grow" anything, you turn into that creature.
OP isn't actually using the Wild Shape given to the Shifter at 4th level, OP is just using the Alternate Shifter Claws given to someone with the Crocodile Aspect at level 1.
Normally that's two Claw attacks, but the Alternate Natural Attacks for a Crocodile is a Bite and Tail attack.So the Polymorph rules don't apply, which is why OP can use their Bite/Claw/Claw attack routine they have from being a Lizardfolk.
If you want more natural attacks, look at the Weretouched Shifter, the hybrid form makes an exception for using Shifter's Claws so you can have 5 primary natural attacks (with Deinonychus aspect) without the need to use munchkin s!#% that is an express train to the "rocks fall you die" destination.
The Falcon also ends up with five natural attacks, so the choice is basically between having Flight or Pounce.
OP isn't actually using the Wild Shape given to the Shifter at 4th level, OP is just using the Alternate Shifter Claws given to someone with the Crocodile Aspect at level 1.
Ah, I didn't get that (the OP said "shifting", and with 4 levels in Shifter, I presumed that to mean "wildshaped"). I apologize for the confusion and my inadvertently off-topic posts.
The alternate natural attacks stuff in WO is badly written, but I think RAW it actually works how he said. I wouldn't expect many GMs to allow you to grow two additional tails when imitating a crocodile, though (unless your campaign was written by The Asylum).