Geas To Build an Army?

[Balkoth]

Player asked what stops the party from knocking out foes and placing them under geases to help defeat their previous master (or something similar). 10 minute casting time is circumvented by, y'knowing, the enemies being unconscious.

Though maybe they have to be conscious at the time the spell finishes? So could revive them at that point or just have them tied up or something I guess -- same principle, same end result.

Not really familiar with this spell.

[lemeres]

Well first, I would establish carefully crafted networks of limited connections and knowledge that prevents any single goon from being able to take you further than their immediate base. This is just smart planning for any evil organization- just regular interrogation and betrayal already presents a large enough issue.

Plus, after seeing that my enemies use this tactic, I would prioritize countermeasures. such as putting my own geas on key personnel.

Or maybe just establish scrying systems and hitsquads devoted solely to taking out people that follow a geas. Maybe make this organization semi-independent so they will finish the job, even if I die. If the goons have an honest belief they WILL be murdered (not like the party will go too far out of their way to protect them), then a geas would not work.

Also, I somewhat doubt that I would trust ANYONE that I am controlling through a geas. It gets them to do ONE job, but I could see them trying to sneak in ways to get at you by details outside of the job- "oh, sorry. I know I was supposed to tell you about all our traps and defenses... but those orcs aren't really with us, they were living in these woods when we got here. We pay them a lot of gold to just look the other way. Sorry I 'forgot' to tell you about them.". There are better mind control spells for this kind of purpose.

[Mysterious Stranger]

Geas functions similarly to lesser geas, except that it affects a creature of any HD and allows no saving throw. The example you give would be considered an open-ended task that the recipient cannot complete through his own actions, so would be subject to the maximum duration of 1 day per caster level.

The spell is also language dependent which means two things. First it cannot be cast on an unconscious person as they cannot understand the instructions. You could however restrain them. Second and most importantly the language dependent means you have to be very clean on what your instructions are. The spell even mentions that the instructions can be subverted. Expect any flaws in the instructions to be exploited.

If the instructions are fairly simply and do not require the cooperation of others it works pretty well. If your instructions are to kill the king that will work fairly well. If the instructions are to help us overthrow the king, that is not going to work as well. In the first instance the person will immediately try and kill the king. In the second instance the spell is only going to last a maximum of 1 day per caster level and they can twist things around so that they may be able to avoid doing what you intended. For example they may help the party, but betray allies of the party who are working with the party. “You said to help our overthrow the king, you did not mention helping the duke”.

[Scott Wilhelm]

The first answewr I have is that PCs do and should turn bad guys' miinions against them with roleplaying, mercy, and magic. Fantasy stories are full of redeemed bad guys, and that is totally a legit story arc.

Quest is a Level 6 Spell. We are talking about some powerful magic, here, so the party should use it wisely.

It only lasts 1 day/level, so it's not like you can build a standing army for that. And people who have been magically manipulated and coerced are bound to become resentful.

In some ways, it would make more sense for the Bad Guy to send Quested minions after the party and allow for the possibility of the party capturing the minion, saving them from the magical onus, and letting them join the party's side. If the party is continually magically coercing service from creatures to break their loyalties, then it is the party who are the Bad Guys.

[Goblin_Priest]

No, I don't think that's how the spell works. It has limitations, both in terms of time, and in terms of not doing things that would result in certain death.

[Cevah]

lemeres wrote:

Well first, I would establish carefully crafted networks of limited connections and knowledge that prevents any single goon from being able to take you further than their immediate base. This is just smart planning for any evil organization- just regular interrogation and betrayal already presents a large enough issue.

Plus, after seeing that my enemies use this tactic, I would prioritize countermeasures. such as putting my own geas on key personnel.

Or maybe just establish scrying systems and hitsquads devoted solely to taking out people that follow a geas. Maybe make this organization semi-independent so they will finish the job, even if I die. If the goons have an honest belief they WILL be murdered (not like the party will go too far out of their way to protect them), then a geas would not work.

Also, I somewhat doubt that I would trust ANYONE that I am controlling through a geas. It gets them to do ONE job, but I could see them trying to sneak in ways to get at you by details outside of the job- "oh, sorry. I know I was supposed to tell you about all our traps and defenses... but those orcs aren't really with us, they were living in these woods when we got here. We pay them a lot of gold to just look the other way. Sorry I 'forgot' to tell you about them.". There are better mind control spells for this kind of purpose.

Well, just check out the The Evil Overlord List and/or Peter's Evil Overlord List. It should only cost about $14,268,632[1] to put in place. This way, you won't miss a trick.

EDIT: Apparently I missed The Dungeon List from Peter.

/cevah

[1] wikipedia.