Hi everyone! I'm currently making my first real Pathfinder character for a campaign my friend is doing. I want to make a bolt ace because crossbows are cool. I've been reading what I can find about bolt aces, crossbows, and Pathfinder in general as I try and figure out what to build. I currently have a few questions about build and progression.
From one post I read it seems like the only worthwhile build for Bolt Ace is two weapon fighting light crossbow (or hand crossbow) crit fishing (with an extra arm sewn on in there somewhere), is this true? I feel like it can't be the only build that's worth it and while I love the look of dual wielding crossbows, having to awkwardly reload using a 3rd arm is weird and becomes difficult to reconcile with a character concept.
I've seen a build that mixed bolt ace with unchained rogue sniper for longer distance stealth sniping, which is a cool concept, but I've also heard it's not actually good, are there viable long range sniping options (or just burst damage shooters) for bolt ace?
Finally, and this is the big one, how should I do feat progression. I'm used to 5e where you get, like, 3 feats maybe if you're lucky, and so managing and working with the 14+ feats you get with Pathfinder characters is a little intimidating. How should I be picking which feats to take when with a bolt master? Does it make sense to rush to Crossbow Mastery as fast as possible or does a breadth-based system work better?
Thanks for sticking through this kind of long post and let me know if there are better resources to look at, I'm still pretty new to building actual Pathfinder characters.
It takes a while to get going but you could also do 5 levels of bolt ace and then go sohei monk and eventually flurry of blows with the crossbow then you would only need 1 and not split your gold between two weapons.
As with any ranged build you will want precise shot asap and you will also want rapid reload because crossbows, with a light cross bow you can get away with holding off on crossbow master till about 9th level.
Are there other ways that don't involve Sohei monks? They look interesting but the mount feature doesn't interest me too much. Would other monk archetypes work to gain access to flurry of blows or does it have to specifically be a Sohei monk?
"the only worthwhile build"?
Bolt Ace is an archery class. And archery is very, very powerful in this system. You can full attack from anywhere really. Even just the normal number of ranged attacks would be very worthwhile (and that is pretty big anyway).
Additionally, bolt ace is version of archery that both gives you dex to damage (which means str is only there so you don't collapse under the weight of your crossbow) and most of your weapons end up getting stats on par with the falcata (ie- "pretty much the only good exotic weapon"). Which makes it very strong at shooting faces.
Yeah- the ability that gives dex to damage also boosts your crit multiplier to x3. And crossbows usually have 19-20 crit range anyway. So just grabbing a nice, simple, easy to use light crossbow is already enough to do damage.
...of course, you still have to face the relative lack of features in the class after level 5. It keeps up in the numbers, but that is all- very few interesting features or advancement after that. So Inquisitors, urban barbarians, etc. are popular for filling out the rest of your build. More sources of damage buffs and interesting class features basically.
One amusing suggestion: a crossbow tank. If you go hand crossbow, you could also grab a shield. Your regular AC is fairly good with dex and scaling AC bonus- saves are good too with the expected stats. If you grab crossbow mastery and point blank master, you don't provoke AoOs even if you shoot and reload in direct melee range.
This doesn't have the damage of that multi limbed TWF monstrosity that the theory crafters love, but it is funny when the best 'melee' character is the guy with the crossbow.
Korin Lastname wrote: Are there other ways that don't involve Sohei monks? They look interesting but the mount feature doesn't interest me too much. Would other monk archetypes work to gain access to flurry of blows or does it have to specifically be a Sohei monk? Sohei doesn't actually get a mount(for some reason) so while they gain some abilities for being mounted you don't actually have to use them as for flurry with a crossbow sohei is the only one that can do it unless you play on making the crossbow and improvised weapon and beating people over the head with it.
lemeres wrote: "the only worthwhile build"?
Bolt Ace is an archery class. And archery is very, very powerful in this system. You can full attack from anywhere really. Even just the normal number of ranged attacks would be very worthwhile (and that is pretty big anyway).
Additionally, bolt ace is version of archery that both gives you dex to damage (which means str is only there so you don't collapse under the weight of your crossbow) and most of your weapons end up getting stats on par with the falcata (ie- "pretty much the only good exotic weapon"). Which makes it very strong at shooting faces.
Yeah- the ability that gives dex to damage also boosts your crit multiplier to x3. And crossbows usually have 19-20 crit range anyway. So just grabbing a nice, simple, easy to use light crossbow is already enough to do damage.
...of course, you still have to face the relative lack of features in the class after level 5. It keeps up in the numbers, but that is all- very few interesting features or advancement after that. So Inquisitors, urban barbarians, etc. are popular for filling out the rest of your build. More sources of damage buffs and interesting class features basically.
One amusing suggestion: a crossbow tank. If you go hand crossbow, you could also grab a shield. Your regular AC is fairly good with dex and scaling AC bonus- saves are good too with the expected stats. If you grab crossbow mastery and point blank master, you don't provoke AoOs even if you shoot and reload in direct melee range.
This doesn't have the damage of that multi limbed TWF monstrosity that the theory crafters love, but it is funny when the best 'melee' character is the guy with the crossbow.
Thanks for the detailed reply! I took a look at inquisitor and found I liked the flavour a lot. Is there anything I should take into consideration in building a Bolt Ace Inquisitor? Is it better to go light crossbow all the way through or switch to heavy crossbow when I pick up crossbow mastery?
I was thinking for feats I'd go rapid reload, point blank shot, precise shot, rapid shot, crossbow mastery, deadly aim, and improved precise shot. Are there any feats missing or feats in there that shouldn't be?
Generally... the only readily noticeable advantage heavy crossbows have over light is larger damage dice. So going with light crossbows so that you have something that fully functions after just taking rapid reload is preferred.
You could later switch to heavy at around the time for crossbow mastery, I suppose. But I never really bother to- I would already have a really nice light crossbow by then.
I theory built a hunter-x, Bolt ace-5, and got a lot of flak for wanting a crossbow over a bow or Dual hand crossbows too. But it is a cool visual for a PC.
Main features were high DEX and high WIS on a medium creature (Human for me, but I wanted the extra feat, anything +2/ or +DEX is good).
Feats: Point Blank Shot,Rapid Reload, Precise shot,Deadly Aim, Clustered Shots, Vital Strike, Rapid Shot, Agile maneuvers (avoid getting disarmed or locked down), weapon focus, Weapon Specialization.
Bolt ace 1>Rapid Reload, Point Blank Shot.
Hunter 1>
Hunter 2> Precise Shot (bonus), Rapid Shot.
Bolt ace 2-5> Vital strike, etc. Hunter-x.
Spells: Gravity Bow (stacks with vital strike), Conjure Energy Arrow/Bolt (fantastic with rapid shot), Cure light wounds (Party bandaid), Razer Maw (if you choose a companion) or Keen senses (for help seeing in low light at range), faerie fire, hydraulic push.
A fast companion is ideal as a blocker to intercept incoming attackers and keep them at range.
Or choose no companion and gain a permanent switchable bonus and rely on emergency summon natures ally for rear guard reinforcements.
Keep a few special material bolts, wear medium armor (until your dex maxes it out), and have a spring loaded wrist sheath melee weapon for emergencies. Use a wand of Gravity bow/energy arrow, to supplement your castings.
It isn't winning any DPR Olympics, but you can move, you can see, and you can hit, while avoiding being hit. Spells are mostly limited to combat/utility, but you don't need to rely on anyone else for buffs and you only need 1. With high DEX and perception you are very likely to act in surprise rounds so you can buff as your standard, then go first in initiative too.
If you choose a small race, gravity bow puts you back to par, and your to hit and ac go up. Plus you can then ride a medium pet around. I still prefer medium because your dpr is already not as amazing as a dedicated archer.
Oh, and if you want an inquisitor, might I suggest the sanctified slayer archetype? This would trade out judgments, but it would give you the studied target ability of a slayer, as well as a bit of sneak attack. Studied target is rather useful since it applies bonuses on a lot of fun skills- it is infinite use, so you can use it any time an NPC is talking to get bonuses to sense motive, perception, etc.
I love the flavor you get when you look at every person you talk to in the same way you look at the things you want to shoot in the face. it has a nice "trust no one" vibe. You trust that bartender at the inn just as much as you trust the demon cultist you just killed.
lemeres wrote: Oh, and if you want an inquisitor, might I suggest the sanctified slayer archetype? This would trade out judgments, but it would give you the studied target ability of a slayer, as well as a bit of sneak attack. Studied target is rather useful since it applies bonuses on a lot of fun skills- it is infinite use, so you can use it any time an NPC is talking to get bonuses to sense motive, perception, etc.
I love the flavor you get when you look at every person you talk to in the same way you look at the things you want to shoot in the face. it has a nice "trust no one" vibe. You trust that bartender at the inn just as much as you trust the demon cultist you just killed.
I took a look through the Inquisitor archetypes and while I liked the Sanctified Slayer, the judgements were just too juicy to give up. I might end up taking Urban Infiltrator for that Holy detective vibe, it depends on what kind of campaign my friend ends up running and if gathering information will be important though.
Guardianlord wrote: I theory built a hunter-x, Bolt ace-5, and got a lot of flak for wanting a crossbow over a bow or Dual hand crossbows too. But it is a cool visual for a PC.
Main features were high DEX and high WIS on a medium creature (Human for me, but I wanted the extra feat, anything +2/ or +DEX is good).
Feats: Point Blank Shot,Rapid Reload, Precise shot,Deadly Aim, Clustered Shots, Vital Strike, Rapid Shot, Agile maneuvers (avoid getting disarmed or locked down), weapon focus, Weapon Specialization.
Bolt ace 1>Rapid Reload, Point Blank Shot.
Hunter 1>
Hunter 2> Precise Shot (bonus), Rapid Shot.
Bolt ace 2-5> Vital strike, etc. Hunter-x.
Spells: Gravity Bow (stacks with vital strike), Conjure Energy Arrow/Bolt (fantastic with rapid shot), Cure light wounds (Party bandaid), Razer Maw (if you choose a companion) or Keen senses (for help seeing in low light at range), faerie fire, hydraulic push.
A fast companion is ideal as a blocker to intercept incoming attackers and keep them at range.
Or choose no companion and gain a permanent switchable bonus and rely on emergency summon natures ally for rear guard reinforcements.
Keep a few special material bolts, wear medium armor (until your dex maxes it out), and have a spring loaded wrist sheath melee weapon for emergencies. Use a wand of Gravity bow/energy arrow, to supplement your castings.
It isn't winning any DPR Olympics, but you can move, you can see, and you can hit, while avoiding being hit. Spells are mostly limited to combat/utility, but you don't need to rely on anyone else for buffs and you only need 1. With high DEX and perception you are very likely to act in surprise rounds so you can buff as your standard, then go first in initiative too.
If you choose a small race, gravity bow puts you back to par, and your to hit and ac go up. Plus you can then ride a medium pet around. I still prefer medium because your dpr is already not as amazing as a dedicated archer.
This sounds like a really cool build! I like the more nature-driven flavour of it, sounds really versatile and an interesting take on the "ranger" archetype character.
I've kind of wanted to roll with a Bolt Ace who goes into the Sentinel PrC, the problem however is that only 3 deities have the light crossbow as a favored weapon- I don't like Abadar, I won't play a follower of an evil deity, and Ondisso does not have an Obedience.
PossibleCabbage wrote: I've kind of wanted to roll with a Bolt Ace who goes into the Sentinel PrC, the problem however is that only 3 deities have the light crossbow as a favored weapon- I don't like Abadar, I won't play a follower of an evil deity, and Ondisso does not have an Obedience. Have your dm make up their deity rosters.
|
