| Frizell Foulis Farquharson |
Some things have come up recently, I have some wierd plans for some characters, as well as some nefarious plans when GM. I think I know the answers to most of these, but am double checking to be sure.
1) Does counter-spelling count as an offensive action? Most specifically in regards to whether or not it breaks invisibility.
2) Deeper Darkness (several parts)
2a) Large area has Deeper Darkness in effect. There is a smaller area in the middle with light from an Oil of Daylight and/or a Heightened Continual Flame. If you are outside of both effects or in the deep dark area, can you tell there is light up ahead in the middle?
2b) Humanoid in the deeper darkness has been hit with Glitterdust. Can anyone see him because of that?
2c) Assume the Deeper Darkness was cast outside in relatively bright light. So the Deeper Darkness only brought conditions down to regular dark (where darkvision works normally). Would your answers to 2a) or 2b) change?
3) Does a fly check to not move (hover) count as a move action? (Specifically for the purposes of preventing you from drawing an item as a move action.)
4) PC with wierd reach situations upcoming.
Bloodrager with racial bite attack, reach weapon, Abyssal Claws, Abyssal Demonic Bulk, Aberrant Abnormal Reach, and spell Long Arm.
Normal has 5' reach with bite and claws.
Normal has 10' reach with weapon (can't strike within 5')
Demonic Bulk has 10' reach with bite and claws
Demonic Bulk has 20' reach with weapon because the weapon also grows larger (can't strike within 15')
Demonic Bulk & Aberrant Abnormal Reach has 10' reach with bite
Demonic Bulk & Aberrant Abnormal Reach has 15' reach with claws
Demonic Bulk & Aberrant Abnormal Reach has 25' reach with weapon (can't strike within 20')
Demonic Bulk, Aberrant Abnormal Reach, & Long Arm has 10' reach with bite
Demonic Bulk, Aberrant Abnormal Reach, & Long Arm has 20' reach with claws
Demonic Bulk, Aberrant Abnormal Reach, & Long Arm has 30' reach with weapon (can't strike within 25')
Is all that reach correct?
Herolab isn't calculating it correctly and is giving me 45' reach with the weapon.
5) Haunts
5a) Does a haunt have to manifest before you can channel positive energy to harm it?
5b) Does holy water or wand of CLW harm a haunt?
5c) If yes, does the haunt have to manifest before you can use those on it? (It has hit us before and we know where it manifests.)
5d) Is there anyway other than just trying random crap, to tell what will permanently put a haunt to rest? The write-up doesn't say anything about it, but it is in an area that the party has had to travel through numerous times. It's just getting annoying.
5e) Haunt has an area of effect that is a ray spell. Everyone in a 40' burst is affected as if by an enervation spell. Complete with a ranged touch attack. Can that AoE critical in this wierd case?
6) Does the bottom target point of a Flame Strike need to be on the ground? Someone was wanting to use it high up in aerial combat.
7) Does spellcraft to identify the spell being cast have a penalty for the distance away from the observer?
| Pizza Lord |
No rule-lawyers here. Nope nope nope... but I am sure we can do our very best to help you... with our humble opinions.
1. No*
*Unless by dispelling it you cause damage or debuff or otherwise affect them, like some counterspell that deals damage to the caster based on the countered spell's level or something.
2a. (Assuming the deeper darkness has dropped the ambient light to dark or supernaturally dark) No, the darkness effect blocks and reduces the light and perception of it (from outside the light spell's area of effect), just like a wall of darkness would hinder viewing light-sources on the other side of it.
2b. (Assuming the deeper darkness made the area dark or supernaturally dark) No. The glowing dust is not a magical light effect (could just be super-radioactive Uranium-232 dust) nor does it effectively increase the ambient light of the area (thus affecting the levels that darkness affects would drop it to). The –40 penalty still might technically apply to their Stealth checks, but the viewing creatures themselves are being prevented from accurately seeing the creature by the darkness, making it moot (but he would have the penalty, such as against a creature with a See in Darkness ability that worked).
2c. Illumination goes: Bright, Normal, Dim, Dark, Supernaturally dark.
The two levels fromdeeper darkness would bring bright light down to dim, which is still enough for a creature without darkvision to see within (20% concealment miss chance).
Bright light becomes dim light and normal light becomes darkness
3. A fly check made to stay in place (hover) is definitely a move-action (if that's what it costs you to hover). That does not make it a 'regular move'. Move is a type of move-action. By that, they mean you may draw a weapon as a free-action (with a BAB +1 or more) when you take a normal move (not a withdraw, not a charge, not a 5-foot step, those aren't regular moves). Hovering is not a regular move.
| doomman47 |
So for the reach the reach weapon can strike 15,20,25,and 30 but not 5 and 10 when they have all the buffs. 15,20 but not 5 and 10 with just demonic bulk. Also while it seems silly the bite would also get 15 reach with the abhorrent reach but would not increase to 20 with long arm though your dm might house rule that the bite doesn't get the extra 5 feet from aberrant reach.
Diego Rossi
|
3. A fly check made to stay in place (hover) is definitely a move-action (if that's what it costs you to hover). That does not make it a 'regular move'. Move is a type of move-action. By that, they mean you may draw a weapon as a free-action (with a BAB +1 or more) when you take a normal move (not a withdraw, not a charge, not a 5-foot step, those aren't regular moves). Hovering is not a regular move.
It isn't.
Action: None. A Fly check doesn’t require an action; it is made as part of another action or as a reaction to a situation.
You can take a full attack or another full round action and make the check as part of that action. If you fail it, you fall.
Ferious Thune
|
I don't think making a fly check to hover requires you to spend a move action. I think you are required to make a fly check to hover if you don't move. Other than that, what Pizza Lord said seems correct.
5a) I don't think it has to manifest. If you know it's there, you can damage it.
5b) CLW can definitely damage a haunt, even if it's from a wand. Holy water I'm less sure of, because it's not positive energy.
5c) See 5a.
5d) The scenario doesn't give any details about putting it to rest to the GM? Or the PCs haven't figured it out yet? Usually there are clues in the manifestation, but not always. If there's no information at all, then make your case to the GM (or let the players make their case) and if the players come up with something reasonable, I'd allow them to put it to rest.
5e) If it's making a touch attack against each creature in a 40' area, then it could crit. It shouldn't be a single roll for everyone, so it shouldn't crit everyone.
6) I don't think the bottom has to be on the ground. The spell doesn't say anything about requiring that.
7) Spellcraft doesn't say anything about range penalties, though a perception check may be required to be able to hear/see the creature casting the spell, depending on the circumstances, and that may take penalties for range, etc. It's going to be a GM call based on the situation.
| Pizza Lord |
5a. Does a haunt have to manifest before you can channel positive energy to harm it?
No. At the start of the surprise round when the haunt would manifest (at initiative 10), everyone that would be able to notice it gets a chance to do so.
When a haunt is triggered, its effects manifest at initiative rank 10 in a surprise round. All characters in the haunt’s proximity can attempt to notice the haunt at the start of this surprise round by making a notice check).
If you notice it beginning to manifest, you can channel energy to affect it. Assume it is manifesting at the start of the surprise round and its actual effect does not trigger until initiative count 10.
On the surprise round in which a haunt manifests, positive energy applied to the haunt ...
It doesn't say after manifesting, which fits with the context of allowing creatures to notice it as it at the beginning of the round when it starts manifesting.
Note that there are ways to notice it before the surprise round, but it does not appear that it can be affected by positive energy or effects until it actually starts to manifest.
Detect undead or detect alignment spells of the appropriate type allow an observer a chance to notice a haunt even before it manifests (allowing that character the appropriate check to notice the haunt, but at a –4 penalty).
So you can tell where it is (and could let you get into position to reach it), but you couldn't do anything until it starts manifesting.
5b. Does holy water or wand of CLW harm a haunt?
If it haunts an object or actual creature or object (like a tree or figurine), then you can affect at AC 10, as written in the Haunts section, by striking that object or specific location. If it's more of a free-floating, incorporeal target (because haunts are all different and unique), then you'd have the same rules for striking them as other incorporeal creatures with such attacks.
It is immune to all nonmagical attack forms. Even when hit by spells or magic weapons, it takes only half damage from a corporeal source (except for channel energy). Although it is not a magical attack, holy water can affect incorporeal undead.
5c. ... does the haunt have to manifest before you can use those on it?
Yes, sort of. The wand of cure light wounds counts as positive energy, which can be used on a haunt during the round in which it manifests and can affect it before its effect manifests on initiative 10. Holy water, while effective (since its undead) does not appear to be a positive energy effect. It affects undead as though similar to acid, which means you would have to let the haunt manifest in order to do so.
Having said that, technically haunts are immune to non-positive energy effects, but the rules leave a fairly broad leeway for certain other things to affect them depending on the haunt itself, like mistletoe or ivy affecting a druid-spawned haunt. In this case, I think the undead nature of the haunt should allow holy water to affect almost any of them, but that's just what I believe to be a fair ruling.
5d. Is there anyway ... to tell what will permanently put a haunt to rest?
Yes. Research, study, talking to the haunt, actual RP.
Check the rules under the Haunts section for investigating a haunt.There's an option for some haunts to remain viable in an area as a CR 1 rapping spirit, able to knock on things or make bumps that communicate 'yes' or 'no' and there's rules for using spirit boards or other things.
Otherwise, investigate it as a mystery and do some looking around and questioning. Was the haunt spawned by a murder? Who was murdered? How were they killed? Trying random crap will take a long time, because even good answers and suggestions might not be what the haunt is looking for to find rest. You could think burying their remains in a cemetary to bringing the killer to justice sounds good, but it might be returning a locket lost in the dirt nearby to their mother or child. So, yeah, lots of ways other than random actions.
5e. Haunt has an area of effect that is a ray spell. Everyone in a 40' burst is affected as if by an enervation spell. Complete with a ranged touch attack. Can that AoE critical in this wierd case?
A ray typically hits one person (often requiring an attack roll), and an AoE burst typically hits everyone (not requiring one), so yeah that's pretty weird. If it requires an attack roll from the haunt, then technically it can threaten a crit (and ennervation can crit) on a natural 20.
| Pizza Lord |
Pizza Lord wrote:3. A fly check made to stay in place (hover) is definitely a move-action (if that's what it costs you to hover). That does not make it a 'regular move'. Move is a type of move-action. By that, they mean you may draw a weapon as a free-action (with a BAB +1 or more) when you take a normal move (not a withdraw, not a charge, not a 5-foot step, those aren't regular moves). Hovering is not a regular move.It isn't.
I am certainly aware of it. The OP made it sound like his specific case or creature required it to be, which is why I added 'if that's what it costs you to hover'.
What're you guys? Rules-lawyers...| Derklord |
But there is no such thing as "what it costs you to hover". Hovering never costs you anything (failing the check might, though). The sentence "Without making a check, a flying creature can remain flying at the end of its turn so long as it moves a distance greater than half its speed." indicates that you make the hover check (or "Move less than half speed and remain flying" check) at the end of your turn.
Diego Rossi
|
But there is no such thing as "what it costs you to hover". Hovering never costs you anything (failing the check might, though). The sentence "Without making a check, a flying creature can remain flying at the end of its turn so long as it moves a distance greater than half its speed." indicates that you make the hover check (or "Move less than half speed and remain flying" check) at the end of your turn.
It says "Action: None. A Fly check doesn’t require an action; it is made as part of another action or as a reaction to a situation.", so I will make it as part of the action that will prevent me from moving more than half my speed. Generally, that coincides with the end of the turn, but sometimes it doesn't.
That can be useful if you cast a full round action, fail the fly check but you can cast feather fall.Using an immediate action in your turn count as using your swift action for that turn, so your immediate action refreshes as soon as the turn end.
If you don't fail the check you can choose to use a different swift action instead.
| Derklord |
It says "Action: None. A Fly check doesn’t require an action; it is made as part of another action or as a reaction to a situation.", so I will make it as part of the action that will prevent me from moving more than half my speed. Generally, that coincides with the end of the turn, but sometimes it doesn't.
The way I see it, the check to hover falls under the "as a reaction to a situation" part of that rule, the situation being 'you didn't move on your turn'. The rules aren't entirely clear, but I think you always make the check at the end of your turn. Thus, I'd say you need to cast Feather Fall off-turn.
| zza ni |
5 - i answered it elsewhere in the forums about incorporeal.
short answer : holy water work on incorporeal undead (a haunt is such).
and there is a specific action needed to splash them with it.
side note, haunts unlike other incoporeal undead (which require that specific close range splash to hit them with) also have this specific holy water rule added in the oocult rulebook :
"While haunts are typically damaged only by applied positive energy, holy water is another potential weapon against them. A flask (1 pint) of holy water that successfully hits a haunt as a splash weapon deals 2d4 points of damage to the haunt on a direct hit, and deals 1 point of damage to haunts within 5 feet of the splash radius."
| Cevah |
Some things have come up recently, I have some wierd plans for some characters, as well as some nefarious plans when GM. I think I know the answers to most of these, but am double checking to be sure.
1) Does counter-spelling count as an offensive action? Most specifically in regards to whether or not it breaks invisibility.
The spell ends if the subject attacks any creature. For purposes of this spell, an attack includes any spell targeting a foe or whose area or effect includes a foe.
To use a counterspell, you must select an opponent as the target of the counterspell.
...
To complete the action, you must then cast an appropriate spell.
Your counterspell was a spell that targeted a foe. You become visible.
7) Does spellcraft to identify the spell being cast have a penalty for the distance away from the observer?
Identifying a spell as it is being cast requires no action, but you must be able to clearly see the spell as it is being cast, and this incurs the same penalties as a Perception skill check due to distance, poor conditions, and other factors.
Retry? You cannot retry checks made to identify a spell.
Yes.
/cevah