|
Ran into a possible fun build option tonight.
Take a couple levels of Brawler (I'm thinking 4 levels) with both the Strangler and Constructed Pugilist archetypes. Take the Grapnel Arm modification to your constructed limb.
Then take a the rest of your levels in Monk with the Tetori archetype to supercharge your grappling.
If I am reading it correctly, the Grapnel Arm allows you to make a ranged touch attack on a target up to 40' away...if that succeeds you get to attempt a grapple on it. If I am reading grapple correctly, you automatically move any creature you are grappling adjacent to yourself. You can then proceed to unleash all the standard tetori monk grapple shenanigans on your poor foe...rapid grappler, chokehold, etc. etc.
I am not 100% on it, but I think you don't even need an AoMF on this build, since you can enchant your constructed limb like a normal magic item, make it from special materials, etc.
Thoughts?
First of all, since Constructed Pugilist and Strangler both modify your class skills my bet is that they wouldn't stack. Shouldn't be a problem since the affected Class Skills don't interact with each other, but I think this is up to your GM.
***
***
I also don't think it's RAI that a weapon with the grapple feature would move a creature adjacent to you if you're grappling at range, considering how that would affect Reach Weapons and Barbed Arrows.
Even if the target is pulled towards us, we would still have to "shift our grip" to a normal grapple if we want to do anything else than Damage/Move the target, as per the restriction of the Grapple feature. If we're lucky the GM rules that this happens automatically. If not, then you'd probably have to make another grapple attempt to grapple with your arms.
***
But since the constructed limb can't be used to make melee attacks until it has been reloaded, I guess that when you "shift the grip" you'd have to grapple one-handed with a -4 penalty.
And if the target isn't pulled to you, then you'd have to consider that there's a 40ft long chain across the battlefield which could easily be sundered and should in some way restrict movement.
So lots of thoughts.
Because both archetypes modify your class skills you technically can't take both Strangler and constructed pugilist on brawler. There is also the complication that your grapnel arm is an unarmed strike and strangler causes you to lose unarmed strike. Meaning it now suffers all the penalties associated with attacking with an unarmed strike when you don't have the improved unarmed strike feat, atleast until you get levels in monk.
I would suggest just being a tetori monk with a one level dip in brawler. The only noteworthy things you're getting from brawler you get at first level. Keep in mind it does take a standard action to "reset" the grapnel. So, it's not a tactic you'd be able to use every round.
There does seem to be a disconnect between the grapple rules and grapple weapon quality. The grapple rules state:
If you successfully grapple a creature that is not adjacent to you, move that creature to an adjacent open space (if no space is available, your grapple fails).
While the grapple weapon quality states:
While you grapple the target with a grappling weapon, you can only move or damage the creature on your turn. You are still considered grappled, though you do not have to be adjacent to the creature to continue the grapple. If you move far enough away to be out of the weapon’s reach, you end the grapple with that action.
It seems like there's the assumption that when you grapple with a weapon the enemy stays in the square they were in. Which makes sense when you consider that one such weapon has a 30 foot range increment. Meaning you could use it to grapple someone 150 feet away from you. Then again maybe the intention of that weapon is to turn you into scorpion from MK... Except with a bow?
Edit: Ninja'd by Wonderstell. That'll teach me to do other things while I'm posting.
|
|
Hmm, HeroLab seems to think you can mix the 2 archetypes...probably because Strangler archetype doesn't contain the "This alters the brawler’s class skills" line of text. I was originally thinking 4 levels of Brawler to get up to the Sleeper Hold...but Tetori gets Stunning Pin, which is similar, so no huge loss.
So...1 level of Constructed Pugilist, the rest in Tetori Monk.
If you don't Scorpion them over to you, would you just have to make a bunch of reposition attempts to pull them closer? Can you maintain a grapple at range? Can you try to upgrade the grapple to pinned at range? There are no rules anywhere I can find for dealing with a chain/rope being stretched across the battlefield...not sure how to handle that.
I rather like the idea of a character with a prosthetic arm with a built in grappling hook though...maybe work in the Hook Fighter feat to be able to melee with the hook instead of just punching and grabbing people...I'll have to play around a little more and see what I come up with.
If you don't Scorpion them over to you, would you just have to make a bunch of reposition attempts to pull them closer? Can you maintain a grapple at range? Can you try to upgrade the grapple to pinned at range? There are no rules anywhere I can find for dealing with a chain/rope being stretched across the battlefield...not sure how to handle that.
A successful grapple check allows you to move your opponent (an option specifically allowed by weapons with the grapple feature).
You can move both yourself and your target up to half your speed.
In theory, with a 40 movement rate you could move yourself 20 feet closer to the enemy and your enemy 20 feet closer to yourself. Which would result in you being next to each other.
Because both archetypes modify your class skills you technically can't take both Strangler and constructed pugilist on brawler.
Anyone else notice Constructed Pugilist "modifies" your class skills to add Craft (weapons), but the Brawler class already had Craft as a class skill, so it's actually adding nothing?
Because both archetypes modify your class skills you technically can't take both Strangler and constructed pugilist on brawler.Anyone else notice Constructed Pugilist "modifies" your class skills to add Craft (weapons), but the Brawler class already had Craft as a class skill, so it's actually adding nothing?
it is weird. Especially when you realize that every class in the game gets craft and profession as class skills... well, except barbarians and bloodragers, they don't get profession as a class skill. I guess because being an angry person isn't professional. Ignoring the fact that skalds get both as class skills...
|
|
Either way...any special feats I should look into?
Tetori gets the following for free at 1st level—Improved Grapple, 2nd level—Stunning Pin, 6th level—Greater Grapple, 10th level—Pinning Knockout
I'm thinking 1) Hook Fighter, 3) Deadly Grappler, 5) Dirty Fighter, 7) Chokehold, 9) Rapid Grappler, 11) ?
Probably go Human with Military Tradition alternate racial for Grappling Hook and Whip proficiency. For stats, 17 14 16 10 10 8 (20pt buy) put levelups to Str.
Also for traits, I'm thinking Ogre Avoidance for the +2 CMD on Grapple...not sure on the 2nd trait
the grabbing style and kraken style feats synergize well with grapple builds. Of course, body shield is a fun feat.
those are the only ones jumping out at me.
Probably go Human with Military Tradition alternate racial for Grappling Hook and Whip proficiency. For stats, 17 14 16 10 10 8 (20pt buy) put levelups to Str.
Also for traits, I'm thinking Ogre Avoidance for the +2 CMD on Grapple...not sure on the 2nd trait
'
The Grapnel Arm modification is probably referring to the Improvised Weapon, and not the Exotic Weapon Grappling Hook, so you don't need the Grappling Hook proficiency.On a successful hit, the grappling hook deals no damage, but it functions as though it had the grapple weapon special feature, except it requires only a hit (not a critical hit) and the grapple ends if the constructed pugilist moves more than 40 feet away from the grappled creature.
'
This sentence implies that the Grappling Hook normally doesn't have the grapple weapon special feature, which the Exotic Weapon has. I don't think it's intended for you to take the Improvised Weaponry penalty though, since it's essentially part of your body.I'd consider the Surprise Weapon trait for a +2 bonus to both fire the Grapnel Arm and all grapple checks you make with the hook.