Teleporting with Incorrect Assumptions

[telephonedivision]

My group is on a demiplane that exists on the astral plane, but they are unaware of that. They currently believe that they are still on the material plane and about 20 miles or so from their camp. They wish to teleport to camp but cannot because teleport does not allow this, my question is what happens when they try.

One of my players believe the spell would simply fail, but there is evidence to suggest otherwise. First off there is a table that specifically deals with mishaps, and greater teleport does not simply fail. Greater teleport, when using misleading information, attempts to teleport but returns to the original location without mishaps. The destination they wish to teleport simply does not exist on this plane and thus I believe it would fall under 'false destination'.

We are also curious what happens when you attempt to teleport further then the range of the spell.

[Dave Justus]

In this case, I agree with your players. They aren't going to a false destination, they are simply out of range of the target. Just as if they were more than 100 miles/level in distance away.

Granted, the spell doesn't specify what happens if an attempt is made to teleport further than the range allowed, but I think fizzle is most likely.

[telephonedivision]

Why does greater teleport not fizzle? When they mention it attempts to teleport and then returns to the destination it sounds like an upgrade. If greater teleport's 'safe teleport' is an upgrade then something worse should happen with regular teleport

[Dave Justus]

I am saying their is a big difference between being out of range and going to the wrong place.

Greater teleport is an upgrade, because if you fail to target properly nothing bad happens to you. Greater teleport's 'you disappear and simply reappear' is basically a 'fizzle' as far as I am concerned. It is a spell failure that changes nothing with a special effect.

This is a different situation though. It isn't a failure because the targeting is off, it is a failure because the target is out of range. Neither teleport or greater teleport has any specific rules on that circumstance, the general rule is that if you try to cast a spell and you don't have enough range for the effect you are looking for is that the spell simply fails.

Usually of course the game is assuming that you know where you are, and you have to know where your target is to teleport their, so the range question really doesn't come up.

I'm not saying it would be wrong for you to rule differently, this is a slightly gray area, and you could certainly add a houserule for 'out of range' teleports, but the best interpretation of the rules, as far as I understand them anyway, is that the teleport spell would be expended without them going anywhere.

[willuwontu]

The spell simply fails. They are not attempting to teleport to a false destination, on the contrary, they are trying to teleport to a location that is real, and they know well. However, it is on another plane, which makes teleport unable to work, as it is now in the purview of plane shift. Therefore the spell quite simply fizzles.

[Cevah]

telephonedivision wrote:

My group is on a demiplane that exists on the astral plane, but they are unaware of that. They currently believe that they are still on the material plane and about 20 miles or so from their camp. They wish to teleport to camp but cannot because teleport does not allow this, my question is what happens when they try.

Why would the spell fail? You are within range, and you are on the same plane as camp so no interplanar travel. I get the possible miss chance might have issues, but the spell itself should work fine for this. You have given no reason for the spell to fail.

/cevah

[Val'bryn2]

Being in a demiplane means you AREN'T on the Material Plane, where the camp is. It is, in fact, extraplanar travel, which Teleport can't handle.

[Diego Rossi]

Quote:

“False destination” is a place that does not truly exist or if you are teleporting to an otherwise familiar location that no longer exists as such or has been so completely altered as to no longer be familiar to you. When traveling to a false destination, roll 1d20+80 to obtain results on the table, rather than rolling d%, since there is no real destination for you to hope to arrive at or even be off target from.

If they are teleporting to their camp, and it doesn't exist on the demi-plane they are going to "a place that does not truly exist", so a false destination (their destination is "our camp, within range of teleport, i. e. on this plane").

Roll a 1d20+80 to see what happen.

[Hugo Rune]

I agree with Diego. But you do run the risk of a TPK if strictly following the table, particularly if the party are retreating because they are low on HP and other resources. I would fudge the second roll so that they end up in a similar area in the new demiplane and are able to make camp there. You may wish to add an easy encounter in the similar area that they have to clear first to establish a safe camp.

[Cevah]

Diego Rossi wrote:

If they are teleporting to their camp, and it doesn't exist on the demi-plane they are going to "a place that does not truly exist", so a false destination (their destination is "our camp, within range of teleport, i. e. on this plane").

The OP did not indicate camp was not on the demiplane. Only that the party is and does not know it. If the camp is on the demiplane, the spell should work normally. If, after leaving camp, they were subject to an effect that changed what plane they were on and they did not notice, then the OP should have said so.

/cevah

[Val'bryn2]

Okay, I see where the confusion arose. He said that the party still thinks they're on the material plane, and 20 miles from camp. You took it to mean they are 20 miles from camp on the demiplane, while I read it as the camp is 20 miles away on the plane they think they're on. If the camp is on the demiplane, then yes, Teleport will work. If it's on the material plane, it won't.

[Diego Rossi]

Cevah wrote:

Diego Rossi wrote:

If they are teleporting to their camp, and it doesn't exist on the demi-plane they are going to "a place that does not truly exist", so a false destination (their destination is "our camp, within range of teleport, i. e. on this plane").

The OP did not indicate camp was not on the demiplane. Only that the party is and does not know it. If the camp is on the demiplane, the spell should work normally. If, after leaving camp, they were subject to an effect that changed what plane they were on and they did not notice, then the OP should have said so.

/cevah

That is why I wrote "If".

When a player says "We teleport to our camp." he implicitly assumes that the camp is in range and on the same plane.
If that is true, teleport work, but the OP said that "cannot because teleport does not allow this", so I assume that the camp was made before entering the demiplane. You assume the opposite.
Some demiplane is very large, but the majority of those you find are relatively small. Generally, you can't teleport 20 miles away and still be in that demiplane.

As an addendum, if a group of players is trying to teleport to a location beyond the spell range, even if they are on the same plane, they are going to a False destination.

[Diego Rossi]

Hugo Rune wrote:

I agree with Diego. But you do run the risk of a TPK if strictly following the table, particularly if the party are retreating because they are low on HP and other resources. I would fudge the second roll so that they end up in a similar area in the new demiplane and are able to make camp there. You may wish to add an easy encounter in the similar area that they have to clear first to establish a safe camp.

If they are teleporting away when very low on hp and they have not reached that point for stupid stubbornness but for acceptable reasons I will fudge the roll.

But retreating when a few d10 of damage without static modifiers will cause a TPK generally is doing it a bit late.

Generally "similar area" shouldn't generate an immediate encounter when "returning to the camp". You either get a location with a similar layout, so supposedly a copy of a location you have chosen because it was safe, or you get a camp. The latter can be dangerous if it is the camp of an enemy, but it can be even helpful if it is the camp of potential allies or an abandoned camp.
The GM has a lot of leeway with a "similar area".