I want to make a character that is extremely frugal, and really loves hoarding and using Junk.
Can you create some Junk Armor (light), and then cast the spell again to upgrade it to heavy? Spell is from Pact Worlds book.
RAW I don't see why not, the light junk armor seems to be a valid target to upgrade.
Also, the junk doesn't vanish or anything after it's used, right? My guy can just keep it all with him in his growing hoard of junk and recast the spell (twice) in the morning to protect himself again with the same junk?
I'd actually just have him constantly carting around 3 bulk worth of junk to cast Junk Armor and Junk Sword.
I think it can upgrade, don't see anything that would make it otherwise. It creates light armor, and light armor is a valid target.
As for the junk vanishing, well, I know the junk bot spells say the junk can only be used once, but I don't see a similar restriction on Junk Armor. In the worst case scenario, take the zero level spell Fabricate Scrap for an easy supply of free junk.
Yes, it looks good to me. And when the weapon leaves your hand, it turns into a pile of junk, so, looks to me that you can cast it again on this very same pile of kunk. So, I would rule it the same for the armor, even if it's not specified in this case.
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I think you're not getting the full benefit of the spell at that point though. In my opinion you use junk armour to modify light armour you have already bought to make it "better."
EX: 5th level techno can buy Ysoki Refractor Suit. Tech Lvl 6, cost
4,120, EAC+7 KAC+7 Max Dex=5 Armour check penalty 0 becomes EAC+8 KAC+9 Max Dex=2 Armour check penalty -2.
If you used Junk Armour on Junk Armour you get; EAC+5 KAC+7 Max Dex=2 becomes EAC+6 KAC+9 Max Dex=0 since I don't think it can be -1 and a armour check penalty of -2.
You lose 2 EAC. Also if you have at least a 14 dex you lose 2 more points in both EAC and KAC. Great fluff and adds character, just not optimal. (Not EVERY character needs to be optimal...just adds to some survivability.)
EX: 5th level techno can buy Ysoki Refractor Suit. Tech Lvl 6, cost
4,120, EAC+7 KAC+7 Max Dex=5 Armour check penalty 0 becomes EAC+8 KAC+9 Max Dex=2 Armour check penalty -2.
Emphasis mine.
You compare it to a level +1 armor, meaning that your Technomancer is always wearing a top of the notch armor. Which is clearly unlikely.Compare it to a level 5 armor, and suddenly, it's better than any armor you can find (if I except the low Max Dex bonus).
And realize that you don't have to buy anything (meaning that you can give the best armors to your fellow party members) and it's suddenly absolutely excellent.
The really bad thing about Junk Armor is that you can't use armor upgrades.
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EX: 5th level techno can buy Ysoki Refractor Suit. Tech Lvl 6, cost
4,120, EAC+7 KAC+7 Max Dex=5 Armour check penalty 0 becomes EAC+8 KAC+9 Max Dex=2 Armour check penalty -2.Emphasis mine.
You compare it to a level +1 armor, meaning that your Technomancer is always wearing a top of the notch armor. Which is clearly unlikely.
Compare it to a level 5 armor, and suddenly, it's better than any armor you can find (if I except the low Max Dex bonus).
And realize that you don't have to buy anything (meaning that you can give the best armors to your fellow party members) and it's suddenly absolutely excellent.
My comparison was based off turning light armour to heavy armour using the spell.
So lets look at the D-suit at the same 5th level caster.So it looks something like EAC+6 KAC+8 Max Dex=2. Which when in use with a 14 dex you get EAC+8 KAC+10.
Where Junk Armour upgrading itself looks like EAC+6 KAC+9 Max Dex=0 with a acp of -2.
Lets go tech level 4. Arochor Hide, Basic turns into EAC+8 KAC+9 with an acp of -2. That is already adding in the two from max dex if you have a 14 in that score.
Lets do tech level 3. Clearweave, i. You turn it into EAC+6 KAC+7 if you add in the ax dex if you have a 14 dex.
So yes if you're using tech level -2 will make better armour. I have a melee-mancer. I use the spell along with Junk Blade. My main concern is armour. If you just want to give your friends light armour it can be okay. In that same vein you're burning two spells for yourself and at least one more per player who asks for it. Assume 1. Assume also a 18 int. That is 5 first level spells a day I believe, six for that trick that gives you a freebie. You are down 3 spells, two if you use your once per day ability. Every added ally who asks for it drains that down by another one. Not efficient.
Assume 1. Assume also a 18 int. That is 5 first level spells a day I believe, six for that trick that gives you a freebie. You are down 3 spells, two if you use your once per day ability. Every added ally who asks for it drains that down by another one. Not efficient.
Junk armor is one of the very few spells which scales with level. So, no, I don't assume 1, because I'll never take it that early. I assume 7. And suddenly, it costs nothing.
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Assume 1. Assume also a 18 int. That is 5 first level spells a day I believe, six for that trick that gives you a freebie. You are down 3 spells, two if you use your once per day ability. Every added ally who asks for it drains that down by another one. Not efficient.Junk armor is one of the very few spells which scales with level. So, no, I don't assume 1, because I'll never take it that early. I assume 7. And suddenly, it costs nothing.
My assume 1 is aimed towards casting it to provide an ally with armour as you pointed out. Unless you mean letting your party take all the best armour that is found or bought? I guess I should of pointed out the rest of the numbers were for a 5th level caster too.
You're also basing this off a technomancer that isnt using it for heavy armour I am guessing? Where I was considering the double usage. I can throw up more numbers for Tech level 7,6,5 light-junk heavy upgrade vs junk light-upgrade junk heavy armour if you want? Because the numbers don't really shift much there.
Sure if you're using it ONLY for light armour, the base numbers can be better. But if you're only using the light version why are you hurting your own armour class? Why limit your max dex to two?
Why limit your max dex to two?
Depends on your Dexterity. If you don't have more than 14, then you don't care of higher max dex bonus.
Anyway, Junk Armor is not an optimized solution, it's a fail-over one: You use it because you don't have better armors to use.And at level 7, Junk Armor is one of the few remaining first level spells which keeps some kind of utility. So, it's a nice one.
But I will not build a character considering I'll use this spell unless:
- It's part of it's roleplay (like Lethallin case) or
- I have to buy armors with credits, like it's the case in SFS or when your DM follow WBL at every level instead of using loot or
- I (or a party member) may be underequipped, either because the campaign is scarce in loot or because I'm playing with underleveled SFS party members.
Yeah, it's certainly not an optimal build, hell he's a Melee technomancer Junkbear. Nothing about that is optimal.
... but it should be fun!
Thanks for the insight everyone.