Cutting corners and magic item creation

[the David]

Yesterday I imagined a dragon creating an Orb of Humankind. (How's that for a plot twist?) Now I'm trying to create suche a magic item and I'm trying to figure out what the price of such an item should be. It would be a command word activated spell-in-a-can, so all it really has to do is Dominate Person. The price of such an item would be 81000 gp. Now that's a lot. I could handwave it and say it's an artifact, but I'd really like the idea of using the dynamic magic item creation rules for this, so the item has its own characteristics. (Much like artifacts having randomized powers in AD&D. I suppose you could say it's a pseudo-artifact.)

Now I do feel this orb should get a discount on the price, I'm just not sure how much. After all, it's an Orb of Humankind, not an Orb of Humanoids. It only affects humans, and not other humanoids. The rules for magic item creation give some directions, but it doesn't go beyond a decrease in price for having to use a skill, or requiring to be a certain class of alignment. What would be a good price for such a magic item?

[Sudden Deinonychus]

I would suggest one of two options. First would be to have an entire series of Orbs of Humanoids, one for each of the many kinds of Humanoids, made by dragons and just as powerful as the Orbs of Dragonkind, and make them artifacts the same way.

But, if all you want it to do is the Dominate Person on humans with none of the other abilities, then I recommend you build it as you like using the rules, then, with the powers vested in you as the GM, give it a reasonable discount for the limitation of only affecting humans. Keeping in mind that there are a BOATLOAD of humans in Golarion (or, probably, any other world you may be using), a reasonable discount to me would probably be 30%. I would say that only allowing Dragons to use this Orb would qualify for a similar price reduction as well. Add in a minimum Intimidate or Diplomacy skill requirement and you can drop the price further.

If you did those three limitations (and if your 81,000 is correct, I didn't know all the details so couldn't check your math), then you can get the price to just below 30,000.

Of course, assuming you are the GM, may I ask what motivates the worry for the item's cost? If you are worried about the PCs getting ahold of it and selling it for too much $, then having all those limitations to use it should kill its value in most markets. Anyway, hope this helped.

[the David]

It's because the dragon will actually create the orb himself with the use of the dynamic magic item creation rules from Pathfinder Unchained. For that purpose I would need the price of the item to determine how many challenges it takes to create the Orb in the first place. (1 challenge for every 5000 gp plus Prepare the Vessel and Complete the Item.)

Ofcourse, I could just roll for a perk, a quirk and a flaw and call it a day.

[Meirril]

First thing, find a similar item and use it as a guideline for the price. Let me submit Eyes of Charming at 56,000gp. Something to note here is technically the Eyes of Charming are heightened to a 4th level spell. By formula that comes out to (4x7x2000gp) 56,000gp exactly so everything seems to be fine.

Orb is a bit different than eye slot. So the price of the Orb so far is Dominate Person based on Wizard since its available on their list. Spell level 5, CL 9, min int is 15 to cast, assume use activated(?) and it is a slotless item (5 x 9 x 2000gp x 2) 180,000 gp and it is in about the price range of an artifact.

Now lets drop some limitations on it. The only restrictions detailed in a book are for skill required (10%) and class/alignment required (30%). Requiring a race makes the available users really narrow but not something the rules handle. Lets just use both of the standard limitations to make it as cheap for the dragon as possible. So can only be used by the creator's alignment and requires spellcraft (or intimidate). 40% reduction in cost brings it down to 108,000gp. Anything else you want to apply goes outside of the guidelines.

Also to point out the save is DC 17 for the item as is. To improve this you need to raise the spell level which also raises the CL and thus greatly raises the cost. You could save a lot by having a limited number of uses per day. 1/day would drop the final price to 21,600gp. Also as the GM you can play with the duration and how many beings can be affected. So you could say only 100 people can be dominated at one time but its effects are permanent. Or that it lasts for a day. Or that it lasts for a year.

Honestly this is just better as an artifact.

[doomman47]

You could probably drop the price by making it only usable by dragons.

[Cevah]

Making it usable by dragns only does not get a discount. Someone official said something like:

paraphrased wrote:

A limitation that is no limitation gets no discount

Spell in a can for Dominate Person is: 5*9*1800*(1/2) = 40,500 gp

This item is too powerful, since you can use it each round to dominate another human, each for 9 days.

Let's make it usable 1/day: 5*9*1800*(1/5) = 16,200 gp
Limit it to humans for 10% ff gets to: 14,580 gp
This is now only 3 challenges for the dragon.

/cevah

[Meirril]

Cevah wrote:

Making it usable by dragns only does not get a discount. Someone official said something like:

paraphrased wrote:

A limitation that is no limitation gets no discount

Spell in a can for Dominate Person is: 5*9*1800*(1/2) = 40,500 gp

why was the cost divided by 2?

[the David]

Meirril wrote:

Cevah wrote:

Making it usable by dragns only does not get a discount. Someone official said something like:

paraphrased wrote:

A limitation that is no limitation gets no discount

Spell in a can for Dominate Person is: 5*9*1800*(1/2) = 40,500 gp

why was the cost divided by 2?

That's for a continuous active item, which it is not. If anything the price should be multiplied by two because it's slotless. Well, more or less. I imagine you actually need to hold it for you to function. Merely stashing it in your backpack wouldn't do anything for you. That's not the same as slotless, as that would be more like ioun stones.

So the limitations would be "must be held to fuction" and "only affects humans." None of this "can only be used by dragons" crap. Exclusivity is an advantage, not a limitation. I also don't want to limit it to once per day.

[Meirril]

Hand Slot would be a pair of gloves or something else you wear. Tons of slotless items have to be held for activation.

[the David]

Meirril wrote:

Hand Slot would be a pair of gloves or something else you wear. Tons of slotless items have to be held for activation.

Can you give some examples? Most of those would be "single use, use-activated" items and are priced like potions. (Spell level × caster level × 50 gp) The example given for "no space limitation" is the Ioun Stone. You might not be giving up a body slot, but you are giving up a free hand to wield a weapon/shield or to use material/somatic components. Ofcourse, the duration of Dominate Person turns this into a minor inconvenience.