| Thellond |
If I were to take Bloodline Development while VMC sorcerer, would I can't as sorcerer for all of my character levels?
How would that interact with Bloodline Development? Would I get all of my bloodline abilities?
Would I still be limited to my charisma modifier rounds per day with Bloodline Development?
Thank you in advance!
| Thellond |
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No you would not count as having a bloodline at all. Note that the VMC does not give yourself a bloodline just a bloodlines powers (treated as).
Thats a big difference. And bloodline development requires actually having a bloodline.
Bloodline: At 1st level, she must select a sorcerer bloodline. She treats her character level as her effective sorcerer level for all bloodline powers
Even with that wording in the VMC page?
| Melkiador |
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Bloodline: At 1st level, she must select a sorcerer bloodline. She treats her character level as her effective sorcerer level for all bloodline powers.
If the arcanist already has a bloodline (or gains one later), taking this exploit instead allows her arcanist levels to stack with the levels of the class that granted her access to the bloodline when determining the powers and abilities of her bloodline.
This interaction is really odd. Rulings could range from the exploit doing nothing in this case; to this combo allows you to add your arcanist levels to your VMC level when determining the level of your VMC bloodline powers.
| Thellond |
VMC wrote:Bloodline: At 1st level, she must select a sorcerer bloodline. She treats her character level as her effective sorcerer level for all bloodline powers.arcanist wrote:If the arcanist already has a bloodline (or gains one later), taking this exploit instead allows her arcanist levels to stack with the levels of the class that granted her access to the bloodline when determining the powers and abilities of her bloodline.This interaction is really odd. Rulings could range from the exploit doing nothing in this case; to this combo allows you to add your arcanist levels to your VMC level when determining the level of your VMC bloodline powers.
Which is exactly why I'm asking the question. It's an amazingly weird interaction. By the way it's worded, Eldritch Heritage doesn't quite work the same way as having an actual class, so I was looking for a way to get full bloodline progression without multiclassing and may have found... This weird interaction. I just... Need to know if lvl 20 arcanist is technically able to get the capstone that sorcerer bloodlines give, but instead I found a conundrum
| Melkiador |
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I would say no to the capstone, because that is not part of the VMC.
Sorcerer
A character who chooses sorcerer as her secondary class gains the following secondary class features.Bloodline: At 1st level, she must select a sorcerer bloodline. She treats her character level as her effective sorcerer level for all bloodline powers.
Bloodline Power: At 3rd level, she gains her bloodline's 1st-level bloodline power.
Improved Bloodline Power: At 7th level, she gains her bloodline's 3rd-level bloodline power
Blood Feat: At 11th level, she gains one of her bloodline's feats or Eschew Materials.
Greater Bloodline Power: At 15th level, she gains her bloodline's 9th-level bloodline power.
True Bloodline Power: At 19th level, she gains her bloodline's 15th-level bloodline power.
First, do the arcanist levels stack with the character levels? There are already a lot of arguments about this kind of thing with no official answer nor even a consensus. So, expect table variation.
Second, does this stacking allow early access to the VMC granted abilities? For example, does a 2nd level arcanist VMC sorcerer count as 4th level for the VMC to determine if you gain a bloodline power? Again, there is no official answer nor consensus.
Third, does this allow your effective sorcerer level to go higher than 20 at level 11? If the answer was yes to the first and second question, then almost certainly, but good luck getting this far.
Ultimately, variant rules from Unchained were left open and vague somewhat on purpose. It is intended for the DM to decide how he wants to incorporate those rules into the regular rules. And it is not intended for there to be a hard official answer for most of these issues.
Personally, if I were the DM in this case, I'd probably just say the VMC sorcerer can't take options that also grant bloodlines, the same way that the VMC sorcerer can't take levels in regular sorcerer.
| Thellond |
I would say no to the capstone, because that is not part of the VMC.
So do you think Eldritch Heritage and Bloodline development would possibly give me the capstone? For the build I'm going for I love the flavor of the Arcanist, so I'd prefer to be an arcanist for this rather than sorcerer, with no multiclassing (but VMC would be okay).
| Melkiador |
The most obvious answer is to just take a normal level of sorcerer and the rest as arcanist, with the bloodline development exploit. But I do understand you may not want to do that, because of the delayed spellcasting.
Eldritch Heritage won't work. "For purposes of using that power, treat your sorcerer level as equal to your character level – 2, even if you have levels in sorcerer. You do not gain any of the other bloodline abilities."
So, I don't think you have an option other than multiclassing if you want the capstone. I will mention that with only a handful of exceptions, you are very unlikely to ever even reach level 20 anyway. So, unless this is for a campaign where your character starts at 20, I wouldn't worry about that capstone. But... you could save the level of sorcerer till level 20, to get the whole bloodline all in one final swoop.