Jury Rigging The Alchemist

[Alphavoltario]

So I've seen this discovery floating around for a little bit

Jury Rigged Bomb:

Jury-Rigged Bomb* (Su) (Antihero's Handbook pg. 29): Unlike normal bombs, jury-rigged bombs can be created from whatever materials the alchemist has on hand; this makes them particularly handy in situations where the alchemist might find himself imprisoned or stripped of his equipment. Jury-rigged bombs can be crafted and thrown as a swift action (this counts against the alchemist’s daily use of bombs), and they deal only 1d4 points of damage + additional damage equal to half the alchemist’s Intelligence modifier on a direct hit. This damage increases by 1d4 at 3rd level and every 2 levels thereafter. Despite being useful in a pinch, jury-rigged bombs are nonetheless crudely crafted and highly unstable; if the alchemist’s attack roll results in a natural 1, the bomb explodes as he is creating it, and he takes damage as if he had taken a direct hit. An alchemist must be at least 4th level before selecting this discovery.

and haven't seen literally any talk about it, even when it came out.

I understand it's a little underwhelming, but the ability to use a slightly downgraded version of you bomb (d4s and only half Int) as a swift action (which to me just means more bombs thrown), and use them even when you don't have your gear seems worth it for a 4th level discovery for a bomb-chucker.

Any thoughts on the usefulness of this discovery?

[avr]

It's about 2/3 normal bomb damage, but that star after the name means you can't apply other bomb discoveries. I don't think it has splash damage for good or ill. Plus there's the fumble chance it adds. I'd call it less than half as valuable as a normal bomb despite costing a use of your precious bombs/day. And, of course, it costs a feat-equivalent in its own right.

There's a use in it for a mad bomber alchemist who wants to go nova even faster than usual but it's not a necessary choice for any build.

[Firebug]

avr wrote:

I don't think it has splash damage for good or ill.

The way I read it is that it functions exactly like a normal bomb except for the listed changes. Meaning, they do fire damage not untyped damage, and have the normal minimum on the dice for splash. If not, well they are now an untyped source of damage that isn't affected by any DR, SR or Resist X and have no range increment since its not listed in the ability. Either it inherits from the base ability or it doesn't.

If you have something else stacking on damage besides the bomb itself (like Medium-Champion, Underground Chemist Sneak Attack, etc) then maybe. I know I considered it for a while on a Rogue/Alchemist build, but I was already planning on spending a swift action each round on Grenadier's alchemical weapon and a move action on Ranged Feint at the time. If I hadn't decided to go with Ranged Feint route, you could probably get some mileage out of Quickdraw: Alchemical Damage item (like acid); Move: Alchemical Weapon; Standard: Explosive Missile->Sand Bomb; Swift Jury-Rigged Bomb+Underground Chemist Sneak Attack. But you would need at least 4 levels alchemist +extra discovery, and 4 levels Rogue for the Sneak Attack with splash weapons. Accomplished Sneak Attacker would get your dice up a little, but its a pretty hefty dip either way.

Comparison of swift action use on Alchemical Weapon vs Jury-Rigged Bomb:

At low level with int modifier of +4, Acid flask would be 7.5 damage, Jury-rigged bomb would be just under that when you first get it (2d4+2=7 average) and at level 5 would just surpass it (3d4+2=9.5). However, you are likely to get a headband soon so it tightens up again. Mid levels using a hybridization funnel and acid/alkali flasks 1d6+int + 1d6+int with an int modifier of +6 is an average of 19 damage, so a level 13 Jury-Rigged Bomb (7d4 +1/2int) finally overtakes it at 20.5 damage.

[MrCharisma]

avr wrote:

I don't think it has splash damage for good or ill.

It uses the same language as other bomb discoveried (like Force Bomb for example), so It should do splash damage.

avr wrote:

There's a use in it for a mad bomber alchemist who wants to go nova even faster than usual but it's not a necessary choice for any build.

This is basically the reason it hasn't got much love. It's mostly only good if you want to go full nova, and then it comes with the opportunity cost of not picking a different discovery that might be more useful. It's not bad (it's good even) but there are better.

If you're playing in a campaign where you're likely to be imprisoned/etc then this probably becomes the best discovery in the game.

[Alphavoltario]

I personally was thinking of using it with a pure rouge build with the Bomber Rouge Talent and the Bomber's Discovery Rouge Talent for a few extra bomb attacks in conjunction with a ranged full-round attack.

To be frank, I have played in campaigns where I seem to be on the other side of the law and get imprisoned a lot, and when I play an alchemist I usually don't have this discovery mainly due to the Infusion discovery and the Precise Bombs discovery taking up my first two discoveries, and leaving me to decide if I need my bombs in these scenarios, or if I need that sweet, sweet stagger save with Frost Bombs.

[MrCharisma]

Alphavoltario wrote:

To be frank, I have played in campaigns where I seem to be on the other side of the law and get imprisoned a lot, and when I play an alchemist I usually don't have this discovery mainly due to the Infusion discovery and the Precise Bombs discovery taking up my first two discoveries, and leaving me to decide if I need my bombs in these scenarios, or if I need that sweet, sweet stagger save with Frost Bombs.

Yeah I think that's it. There are other things that you want more - that's why you don't year much about it. For the Rogue build you're talking about it could be a great way to add to your full attack though, so it looks like you've found a place for it.