Back in 2013, when I first started playing PFS and Pathfinder in general, I had a concept in my mind and just did what I could to make that a reality. Limited book choices and having never played a tabletop game before led to a character that while enjoyable to play, was far from optimized and ended his PFS career after 3.5 years at level 12 with 5 deaths under his belt. While I've had a number of opportunities to play Eyes of the Ten, I always turned them down as I was sure I'd just die again and not have fun doing so.
Now with Pathfinder 2.0 set to start next year, I thought I'd try takiing all that I've learned and play a new character with a similar concept. A hybrid of melee combat and spellcasting culminating in Dragon Disciple. To do the idea justice, I decided to take a look at my old character and see where his flaws are (not counting my playing them as I have a habit of dying anyway), and see what I can do to improve.
Sorcerer 4 (Favored Class: hp, skill, skill, skill)
Fighter 1
Dragon Disciple 7
Male Human (Garundi) from Rahadoum
Gold Dragon Bloodline
Taldane (Common), Osiriani, Draconic, Ignan, Auran, Orc, Abyssal, Dwarven, Jistka, Thassilonian, Ancient Osiriani, Tekritanin, Azlanti, Aquan, Terran, Celestial, Infernal
STR 16 (+4 Dragon Disciple)
DEX 20 (+2 Human, +2 Snakeskin Tunic)
CON 16 (+4 Belt, +2 Dragon Disciple
INT 16 (+1 lvl 4, +2 Ioun Stone)
WIS 10
CHA 18 (+1 lvl 8, +1 lvl 12, +2 Headband)
HP 112
Fort +12, Ref +11, Will +11
Init +9
AC 24 (+1 armor, +5 DEX, +7 natural, +1 Dodge), Touch 16, Flat-foot 18
BAB +8/+3, CMB +11, CMD 27
30ft speed, Fly 60ft (Average)
Attacks
+1 Planar Falcata +13/+8 1d8+4 (19-20/x3)
Mithral Kukri/MW Cold Iron Kukri +14/+9 1d4+3 (18-20/x2)
2 Claws +13 1d6+3 +1d6 fire (20/x2), Bite +13 1d6+4 +1d6 fire (20/x2)
Breath Weapon 2/day 14d6 fire REF20 halves
Dragon Form 1/day
Spells
Level 0 (at will)- Acid Splash, Flare, Light, Resistance, Detect Magic, Disrupt Undead, Read Magic, Detect Poison
Level 1 (7/day)- Burning Hands, True Strike, Magic Missile, Shield, Thunderstomp, <Mage Armor>
Level 2 (7/day)- Scorching Ray, Warding Weapon, Knock, Spontaneous Immolation, <Resist Energy>
Level 3 (7/day)- Haste, Fireball, Shifting Sand, <Fly>
Level 4 (5/day)- Summon Monster IV, Dragon's Breath, <Fear>
Feats
Weapon Finesse, Two-Weapon Fighting, Eschew Materials, Exotic Weapon Proficiency (Falcata), Dodge, Weapon Focus (Falcata), Additional Traits (Magical Knack, Captain's Blade), Toughness, Improved Initiative, Blind-Fight, Skill Focus (Acrobatics)
Traits
Deft Dodger, Desert Child, Magical Knack, Captain's Blade
Items
Hot Weather Outfit
Wayfinder
+1 Planar Falcata
MW Cold Iron Kukri x2
Mithral Kukri x2
Belt of Mighty Constitution +4
Headband of Alluring Charisma +2
Scarlet & Blue Sphere Ioun Stone
Snakeskin Tunic
Robe of Arcane Heritage
Cloak of Resistance +2
Ring of Summoning Affinity (Psychopomp)
Wand of Cure Light Wounds (13 charges)
Wand of Infernal Healing (8 charges)
Wand of Magic Missile (17 charges)
Potion of Cure Light Wounds x2
Potion of Cure Moderate Wounds x3
Potion of Cure Serious Wounds x2
Potion of Bless Weapon x2
Antitoxin x2
Antiplague x2
Adamantine Weapon Blanch x3
1893gp, 7sp
14 Prestige/58 Fame
Skills
Acrobatics +27
Bluff +8
Diplomacy +8
Escape Artist +9
Fly +9
Intimidate +11
Knowledge (Arcana) +11
Knowledge (Dungeoneering) +7
Knowledge (Engineering) +7
Knowledge (Geography) +7
Knowledge (History) +7
Knowledge (Local) +7
Knowledge (Nature) +8
Knowledge (Nobility) +7
Knowledge (Planes) +7
Knowledge (Religion) +7
Linguistics +15
Perception +6
Profession (Town Guard) +7
Profession (Teacher) +15
Spellcraft +7
Survival +10
Use Magic Device +8
Progression
Sorc1 -> Fight1 -> Sorc2 -> Sorc3 -> Sorc4 -> DD1 -> DD2 -> DD3 -> DD4 -> DD5 -> DD6 -> DD7
While these are his stats at level 12, he has never played at this level and some things he only got after retiring from active duty, such as his Ring as well as his Dragon Form and Wings.
Right away we see that he's DEX focused with low STR and CON without his boosts (12 and 10 respectively at lvl 1). Even his CHA was only 14 at lvl 1 and topping out at 17 at lvl 11 when he was last played. He also chose to get an exotic weapon that was not finesse-able and proceeded to dual-wield it interchangeably with Kukri. His skills are all over the place with Max ranks in Acrobatics and Linguistics (Teacher was granted by the Ioun Stone).
His primary combat tactic was to buff AC with Mage Armour & Shield, cast Warding Weapon, and then run up to enemies and cast spells in their faces before attacking with his weapons. The higher level he got, the less often he used those weapons, preferring to Claw/Claw/Bite instead.
Now then, knowing what we know and my proclivities for throwing caution to the wind, I've come up with 2 ideas for my new character but am undecided on which way to go. Both have dumped WIS to better match my own stats and both have potential to do well enough in melee, though one is clearly built more for it at the cost of casting ability. I fully intend to go with the WIS dump, but otherwise I'd like some advice on which build better encapsulates my vision of a human trying to be a dragon as well as which is more viable. Am I making the same mistakes or making all new ones?
Human
Sorcerer 5 (Favored Class Bonus: +1 spell known that is 1 level lower than max x5)
Dragon Disciple 6
Bloodline: any, though leaning towards Astral, Etheric, Occult, Forest, Sovereign, Crystal, Magma, Red, Black, or Gold
Weapon of Choice: Spells with back up Longspear
Traits: Magical Knack, ???
STR 16
DEX 12
CON 14
INT 12
WIS 7
CHA 16 (+2 Human)
1st: Sorc 1
- BAB +0, Fort +0, Ref +0, Will +2
- Claws
- Cantrips
- Feats: Eschew Materials, Point Blank Shot, Precise Shot
- Level 0 (at will) 5
- Level 1 (4/day) 2
2nd: Sorc 2
- BAB +1, Fort +0, Ref +0, Will +3
- Level 0 (at will) 7
- Level 1 (5/day) 2
3rd: Sorc 3
- BAB +1, Fort +1, Ref +1, Will +3
- Dragon Resistances
- Feats: Spell Focus (Evocation)
- Level 0 (at will) 8
- Level 1 (6/day) Mage Armor & 3
4th: Sorc 4
- BAB +2, Fort +1, Ref +1, Will +4
- CHA 17
- Level 0 (at will) 9
- Level 1 (7/day) Mage Armor & 4
- Level 2 (4/day) 1
5th: Sorc 5
- BAB +2, Fort +1, Ref +1, Will +4
- Claws
- Feats: Weapon Focus (Longspear)
- Level 0 (at will) 9
- Level 1 (7/day) Mage Armor & 6
- Level 2 (5/day) Resist Energy & 2
6th: DD 1
- BAB +2, Fort +2, Ref +1, Will +5
- Blood of Dragons
- +1 total Natural Armor
7th: DD 2
- BAB +3, Fort +2, Ref +2, Will +5
- STR 18
- Claws
- Dragon Bite
- Feats: Power Attack, Greater Spell Focus (Evocation)
- Level 0 (at will) 10
- Level 1 (7/day) Mage Armor & 6
- Level 2 (6/day) Resist Energy & 2
- Level 3 (4/day) Fly & 1
8th: DD 3
- BAB +4, Fort +3, Ref +2, Will +6
- CHA 18
- Breath Weapon
- Level 0 (at will) 10
- Level 1 (7/day) Mage Armor & 7
- Level 2 (7/day) Resist Energy & 3
- Level 3 (5/day) Fly & 2
9th: DD 4
- BAB +5, Fort +3, Ref +2, Will +6
- STR 20
- +2 total Natural Armor
- Dragon Resistances
- Breath Weapon
- Feats: Spell Penetration
- Level 0 (at will) 11
- Level 1 (7/day) Mage Armor & 7
- Level 2 (7/day) Resist Energy & 3
- Level 3 (6/day) Fly & 2
- Level 4 (3/day) Fear & 1
10th: DD 5
- BAB +5, Fort +4, Ref +3, Will +7
- Blindsense
- Feats: Improved Initiative
11th: DD 6
- BAB +6, Fort +3, Ref +2, Will +6
- CON 16
- Claws
- Feats: Piercing Spell
- Level 0 (at will) 11
- Level 1 (7/day) Mage Armor & 7
- Level 2 (7/day) Resist Energy & 4
- Level 3 (7/day) Fly & 3
- Level 4 (4/day) Fear & 2
Fighter (Dragonheir Scion) 4 (Favored Class Bonus: ???)
Sorcerer 1
Dragon Disciple 6
Bloodline: leaning towards Red, Black, Bronze or Gold
Weapon of Choice: Any 2-handed (greatsword, Naginata, Bardiche, etc.) with back up buff spells
Traits: Magical Knack, ???
STR 17 (+2 Human)
DEX 14
CON 14
INT 12
WIS 7
CHA 14
1st: Fight 1
- BAB +1, Fort +2, Ref +0, Will +0
- Feats: Arcane Strike, Power Attack, Furious Focus
2nd: Fight 2
- BAB +2, Fort +3, Ref +0, Will +0
- Fearful Might
- Feats: Dodge
3rd: Fight 3
- BAB +3, Fort +3, Ref +1, Will +1
- Draconic Defenses
- Feats: Mobility
4th: Fight 4
- BAB +4, Fort +4, Ref +1, Will +1
- STR 18
- Draconic Strike
5th: Sorc 1
- BAB +4, Fort +4, Ref +1, Will +3
- Claws
- Cantrips
- Feats: Eschew Materials, (Spring Attack or Arcane Armor Training)
- Level 0 (at will) 4
- Level 1 (4/day) 2
6th: DD 1
- BAB +4, Fort +5, Ref +1, Will +4
- Blood of Dragons
- +1 total Natural Armor
7th: DD 2
- BAB +5, Fort +5, Ref +2, Will +5
- STR 20
- Dragon Resistances
- Dragon Bite
- Feats: Improved Initiative, (Arcane Armor Training or Spring Attack)
- Level 0 (at will) 5
- Level 1 (5/day) Mage Armor & 2
8th: DD 3
- BAB +6, Fort +6, Ref +2, Will +6
- STR 21
- Breath Weapon
- Level 0 (at will) 5
- Level 1 (6/day) Mage Armor & 3
9th: DD 4
- BAB +7, Fort +6, Ref +2, Will +6
- STR 23
- +2 total Natural Armor
- Claws
- Feats: Vital Strike
- Level 0 (at will) 6
- Level 1 (7/day) Mage Armor & 3
- Level 2 (4/day) Resist Energy & 1
10th: DD 5
- BAB +7, Fort +7, Ref +3, Will +7
- Blindsense
- Feats: Blind-Fight
11th: DD 6
- BAB +8, Fort +7, Ref +3, Will +7
- CON 16
- Claws
- Feats: Arcane Armor Mastery
- Level 0 (at will) 6
- Level 1 (7/day) Mage Armor & 4
- Level 2 (5/day) Resist Energy & 2
The Pureblood feels more like a Dragon with powerful spells to fling at martial enemies and a decent attack to use on mages. On the other hand, the Dragon Heir feels like a beast destroying everything in it's path. I can even see replacing Dodge, Mobility & Spring Attack with something to do with intimidation or even Weapon Focus/Specialization to up the damage.
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If you are going the material way - then go full bloodrager, perhaps with a dip in lore oracle for cha to AC and lame curse. Grab ragepowers which grants extra natural attacks.
I’m not sure if PFS support dragon disciple stacking with dragonbloodline bloodrager. So check that.
Intimidate build on top as iscing.
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Bloodrager into Dragon Disciple is 100% PFS compatible, I have one who is about to hit level 9 that is great fun to play.
Here is the build I use, feel free to copy it for yourself, or modify it to your liking.
Bloodrager (Steelblood Archetype, Gold Dragon Bloodline) 5 / Dragon Disciple 7
Race: Nagaji
Str: 16 (+2 Racial = 18)
Dex: 12
Con: 14
Int: 12 (-2 Racial = 10)
Wis: 10
Cha: 11 (+2 Racial = 13)
(Stat boosts to Str)
Traits: Armor Expert, Veteran of Battle
1. Bloodrager 1: Bloodline: Draconic (Gold), Bloodrage, Indomitable Stance
Bloodline Power: Claws 1d6
Feat: Power Attack
2. Bloodrager 2: Armored Swiftness
3. Bloodrager 3: Blood sanctuary
Feat: Furious Focus
4. Bloodrager 4: Blood Casting
Bonus Feat: Eschew Materials
Bloodline Power: Draconic Resistance (5/Fire, +1 Natural AC)
5. Bloodrager 5: Armor Training
Feat: Intimidating Prowess
6. Dragon Disciple 1: Blood of Dragons, +1 Natural AC
7. Dragon Disciple 2: Str +2, Dragon Bite 1d6, +1 Bloodrager Spellcasting Level
Feat: Cornugon Smash
Bloodline Feat: Toughness
8. Dragon Disciple 3: Breath Weapon 1/day (8d6 fire, 30' cone, DC 10+level+con bonus),
+1 Bloodrager Spellcasting Level
Bloodline Power: Breath Weapon +1/day, Draconic Resistance (+5/Fire, +1 Natural AC)
9. Dragon Disciple 4: Str +2, +1 Natural AC, +1 Bloodrager Spellcasting Level
Feat: Vital Strike
10. Dragon Disciple 5: Blindsense 30'
Bloodline Feat: Improved Initiative
11. Dragon Disciple 6: +2 Con, +1 Bloodrager Spellcasting Level
Feat: Skill Focus: Intimidate
12. Dragon Disciple 7: Dragon Form (1/day), +1 Natural AC, +1 Bloodrager Spellcasting Level
Bloodline Power: Dragon Wings
Items:
Ring of Sustenance 2500
Ring of Protection +2
+1 = 2000, +2 = +6000 (8000 total)
Amulet of Natural Armor +2
+1 = 2000, +2 = +6000 (8000 total)
Cloak of Resistance +3
+1 = 1000, +2 = +3000, +3 = +5000 (9000 total)
Belt of Giant Strength +4
+2 = 4000, +4 = +12000 (16000 Total)
Full Plate (Fire-Forged Steel) +3
4500 Base +1 = 1000, +2 = +3000, +3 = +5000 (13500 total)
Greataxe (Fire-Forged Steel) +3, Cruel
(620 base build paid for with prestige) +1 = 2000, Cruel = +6000, +2
= +10000, +3 = +18000 (36000 total)
Tactics, self buff with spells like shield, mirror image, blur, enlarge person, etc. Wade into battle, Rage, smash faces.
At higher levels, Vital Strike + Cornugon Smash + Cruel Weapon + Crazy high Intimidation means you hit 1 time per round, really hard, and if they survive, they will be Shaken and Sickened, making them less of a threat, and easier to kill. Steelblood archetype means you wear full plate, so your AC is pretty top notch. Fire Forged steel armor and weapon + fire resistance means if you get hit with fire you will end up doing extra fire damage back to things.
If you get disarmed (or run into a Rust Monster like I did last session), you can still dish out crazy damage with a claw/claw/bite attack routine (or you could easily modify this build to ditch the weapon, and focus on natural attacks)
Generally, martial class 1/ Sorcerer 4/ Dragon Disciple 4 makes the most sense by far. Martial 4/ Sorcerer 1 loses a level and a half of spellcasting for 1 BAB difference. At level 9, that's the difference between having a strong serving of level 3 spells - like Haste and Heroism just to name the obvious ones - and just barely breaking into level 2. Of course, there might be some special reason to go more than martial 1, but it better be a very good one.
One strong single martial option is Barbarian/Bloodrage 1 - taking Extra Rage once already means around 12 rounds per day, so with one level you've got the main benefit of being a Rage class - including Furious weapons. Bloodrager can take Mad Magic to cast spells while raging, though for many builds that's not really that important. Once you get into melee and turn Rage on, you probably aren't going to be casting spells unless using some special trick.
Another very strong option is Scaled Fist Monk 1. CHA to AC and free Dodge, Unchained Flurry of Blows with a temple sword or 9-ring sword on two hands. It's hard to beat bonus two-handed attacks and using your casting stat for AC. Dual Talent Human to stack ability scores and you can easily have 26STR/24CHA by level 12 with items.
Snakebite Striker Brawler 1 and Accomplished Sneak Attacker grants 2d6 Sneak Attack, which is strong with spell tricks.
Speaking of spell tricks, the spell Dazzling Blade is amazing on a melee caster - swift-action casting, free-action blind. It's a level 1 spell, perfect for Metamagic trait manipulation and Persistent spell. Crossing the buff spell Sense Vitals with Dazzling Blade is truly brutal. Of course, to use Dazzling Blade well takes a decent CHA and spell slots to burn on Persistent. But aggressive swift-blinding at the right moment is fantastic.
I do have a character that is currently Monk 6 / Bloodrager 1 (Scaled Fist, Hungry Ghost Monk, Qinggong Monk, Urban Bloodrager) who I play as the daughter of Xane (My first character mentioned above) and my second character, fusing Xane's Draconic abilities with Ionna's penchant for kicking things into range of her polearm. I'm planning for her remaining levels to be Bloodrager.
So I do have a character that uses Scaled Fist and Bloodrager, but no chance of going Dragon Disciple until 11th level, by which point, there's no point unless I play beyond 12.
I was also using a character going Scaled Fist/Sorcerer in the Pathfinder: Kingmaker game from OwlCat, but I became more interested in starting a new game with only 1 custom party member rather than the ~30 this one had via file editing. It was quite fun, and I may do so again on a more serious play-through.
With all its faults, Kingmaker is pretty great. I created a solo character with Empyreal Sorcerer/ Traditional Monk 1/ Eldritch Knight (after a lot of restarts) because of 3 things:
1. Empyreal Sorcerer uses WIS. WIS = Perception, Will Save. I don't think I need to explain that choice further on a solo creature.
2. Flurry works with anything in Kingmaker (bug?). Rumor has it that some of the best weapons are bastard swords of extreme prejudice, and I really like the bastard sword skins. So I went Flurry of Blows with bastard sword in anticipation of Briar Blade or Armagh's sword.
3. As far as buffing goes playing solo Kingmaker: Greater Invisibility -> Sense Vitals -> Haste -> ExTErmINaTE!
Anyways...
A thing to note about Dragon Disciple: how powerful DD levels are depends on how powerful their spellcasting is. A Dragon Disciple level that grants levels of full casting class is very strong. A Dragon Disciple level that grants 4-level casting is... not so strong. I'm not saying using DD to advance other casting classes is wrong - just that full casting levels are top-shelf stuff. Ever consider Monstrous Physique II: Calikang?
The weirdest and maybe strongest Dragon Disciple uses Ley-Line Guardian Witch with Strength Patron. You get Divine Favor and maybe Divine Power as a Witch spell on top of DD buffs. Divine Favor/Power, Fate's Favored, Heroism and +4 STR from DD is a reaping machine. Especially at higher levels when you can "pounce" with Dimensional Dervish or Quickened Storm Step.
You might consider using a spell specialist arcanist for your dragon disciple, if you want to go intelligence based instead of charisma.