Can channeled positive energy hurt an undead possessing the living?

[Mathota]

Say you have an undead that has possessed a living creature, and a cleric attempts to channel positive energy in an attempt to harm it, would the possessing undead creature take damage? would the living creature that is being possessed take damage?

Similarly, if the cleric doesn't know the living creature is possessed, and considers it an ally, and attempts to channel positive energy to heal it, would it be healed? would it take damage? would the possessing undead take damage?

[doomman47]

The undead would take damage the possessed creature would not(unless they have negative energy affinity).

[doomman47]

The ally would heal and nothing would happen to the undead since you can only heal or do damage with channel unless you have some ability that lets you do both.

[Alphavoltario]

Channel energy (Positive) heals living creatures or harms undead (chosen when you choose to channel) affecting individuals with no regard as to who is in range (with the exceptions of being able to exclude yourself, or others with the <Selective Channel> feat).

An undead possessing a living individual will be treated as a living individual as the possessed body is now the possessors. The only ways to stop a possession are through <Protection from (Alignment)> spells and I believe a <Dispel Magic> spell can work depending on if the possession is considered a spell or spell-like ability.

Channel energy cannot stop the interaction of a possession... unless there's a house rule... or some feat I do not know of (.-.)

[Azothath]

well, no.
There's a cute spell that describes a similar situation... Daywalker

[Alphavoltario]

Azothath wrote:

well, no.

There's a cute spell that describes a similar situation... Daywalker

....Swing and a miss.... this changes the outward appearance of being living, similar to a <Disguise Self> but Necromancy rather than Illusion, cuz... well... undead. two places it even says it doesn't change the fact that their body is still undead, "...willing undead creature to *resemble a living, breathing creature..." and again "...the signs of life are *false, and a close examination with a Heal check always reveals the truth of the dead flesh..." the most that spell does is give a dead thing false flesh; it doesn't make it alive.

However a possessed creature is still physically whatever they were before they got possessed.

Also Channel Energy can affect 'haunts' which are loosely described in OA books as being the equivalent of 'area undead' with generic variations. I'll post later with haunt rules.

[Daw]

I suppose the big question is how the possession works via the body of the possessor. If the body is left behind and has a physical presence, then the channel should be in the area of the body to be effective. The metaphorical strings are not in themselves undead. Now if the undead leaves no body behind it presumes that the actual undead itself enters the victim and the undead is damaged by a directed damaging positive channel. This does not directly disrupt the possession, though the destruction of the undead in question would indirectly end the possession. The haunts area of existance is effectively its body so yes it can be temporarily destroyed by said channel in its area.

[Azothath]

for channelling(attacks, spell effects etc) the target body takes damage not the possessing soul, review Magic Jar, of course with the breadth of spells there are a few specific exceptions.
There is a long play history attached to Magic Jar.

Channel Energy, CRB:

Channeling energy causes a burst that affects all creatures of one type (either undead or living) in a 30-foot radius centered on the cleric. The amount of damage dealt or healed is equal to 1d6 points of damage plus 1d6 points of damage for every two cleric levels beyond 1st (2d6 at 3rd, 3d6 at 5th, and so on). Creatures that take damage from channeled energy receive a Will save to halve the damage. The DC of this save is equal to 10 + 1/2 the cleric’s level + the cleric’s Charisma modifier. Creatures healed by channel energy cannot exceed their maximum hit point total—all excess healing is lost. A cleric may channel energy a number of times per day equal to 3 + her Charisma modifier. This is a standard action that does not provoke an attack of opportunity. A cleric can choose whether or not to include herself in this effect.

the other trick is that channelling to harm undead would not affect the possessing spirit as with Magic Jar the caster is living(usually).
A possessing undead creature adds a wrinkle, but it is in a meat puppet and that protects it by breaking Line of Effect. That's also the reason I posted originally showing the effects of Daywalker.

In comparison a Vermlek wears a dead body. Since the game considers a dead body an object it is a bit different.

Channel Energy could harm a possessing spirit in the round it is attempting to take over a body as it is presumed not to be in the body yet, thus it is exposed. The channel would have to match its state of living or undead.

Alphavoltario wrote:

...

My reference to Daywalker was more to the Original Post. The spell shows how undead with (Su) powers and other effects are suppressed while they wear a corporeal body, so the reverse of the situation. I ran across this as I had a lich that could cast the spell and it would help on a disguise level as there is a Paladin in the party.

[Alphavoltario]

So the assumption for this 'possession' is that either:

a.) the possessing undead is using a spell and leaving its own body behind. Correct course of action: destroy the undead body with your channel and then force the possessor to eject.

b.) the possessing creature is incorporeal (such as a ghost) and merges it's body with the host. this is described here:

https://www.d20pfsrd.com/alternative-rule-systems/occult-adventures/occult- rules/magical-possession/

and states the following: "...Incorporeal possession occurs when a creature without a physical body (such as a ghost or shadow demon) merges with the body of its host. In this event, the possessor leaves no trace of itself behind for foes to target..." leaving no valid target for a channel to affect (as undead)...

In this case though the full possession of one others body is more beneficial than <Daywalker> as stated in possession alternative rules "...The possessor retains the use of her spells and spell-like abilities, and can use her non-magical and magical class abilities (such as a cleric’s domain powers, a barbarian’s rage, and a wizard’s arcane school power). However, she can’t use supernatural abilities that rely upon her true form..."

Also I still stand by what I say behind that <Daywalker> doesn't really have relevance; the spell is falsifying a 'living' body for and undead without changing the fact that the body will still have them be treated as undead. Possession of a living being is hiding inside something that will take away that weakness, because a ghost entering your body doesn't make you an undead... (.-.) It's a deception type spell, where as direct possession is a strait attack and conquer type ability.

As to bringing up Channel CRB(working backwards here) nowhere in the description of channel does it say it disrupts a possession effect, only that it heals or deals damage.