| GM supervillan |
This has just come up in a pbp I am running.
I've had a think about whether or not Broken Wing Gambit can work against a mindless opponent, and I think at present that it cannot, for several reasons.
First, the feat describes the user 'feigning weakness', and one cannot feign against a mindless opponent (feint explicitly does not work for example).
Second, the feat rules text says "if that opponent attacks you with this bonus, it provokes attacks of opportunity", which implies a choice to use the bonus on the part of the attacker; the text would otherwise just say "if that opponent attacks you, it provokes". However, some other threads in the Rules forum argue that the bonus granted to an attacker is not a matter of choice at all, but simply applies until the next turn. An intelligent attacker could choose to attack another target once it becomes aware of the trick - but a non-intelligent creature would never be aware. I think that I am persuaded that where the feat applies the bonus is mandatory.
A golem is mindless and incapable of making decisions beyond following its orders/programming. So It can't, therefore, decide to forego the +2 bonus from Broken Wing Gambit if the feat can work at all.
But I don't think that a feat that represents feigning vulnerability (and that needs 5 ranks of Bluff to qualify for) can work against a mindless creature that can't be feinted. A mindless creature can't be taken in by the deceit.
I want to be sure I am being fair to the player, and this is a PFS game so I have to apply all of the rules.
Opinions?
| willuwontu |
It's not that feinting can't be used against mindless foes, it's that feint can't be used against foes that lack an intelligence score (which is usually mindless, but not always).
Feinting is a standard action. To feint, make a Bluff skill check. The DC of this check is equal to 10 + your opponent’s base attack bonus + your opponent’s Wisdom modifier. If your opponent is trained in Sense Motive, the DC is instead equal to 10 + your opponent’s Sense Motive bonus, if higher. If successful, the next melee attack you make against the target does not allow him to use his Dexterity bonus to AC (if any). This attack must be made on or before your next turn.
When feinting against a non-humanoid you take a –4 penalty. Against a creature of animal Intelligence (1 or 2), you take a –8 penalty. Against a creature lacking an Intelligence score, it’s impossible. Feinting in combat does not provoke attacks of opportunity.
It won't gain the mind-affecting descriptor if it's a mind-affecting effect from a feat (it's a feat not a spell), instead it will call out that it's mind-affecting.
This is a feat that is mind-affecting.
Whether with biting remarks or hurtful words, you are adept at making creatures angry with you.
Benefit: You can make Diplomacy and Intimidate checks to make creatures respond to you with hostility. No matter which skill you use, antagonizing a creature takes a standard action that does not provoke attacks of opportunity, and has a DC equal to 10 + the target’s Hit Dice + the target’s Wisdom modifier. You cannot make this check against a creature that does not understand you or has an Intelligence score of 3 or lower. Before you make these checks, you may make a Sense Motive check (DC 20) as a swift action to gain an insight bonus on these Diplomacy or Intimidate checks equal to your Charisma bonus until the end of your next turn. The benefits you gain for this check depend on the skill you use. This is a mind-affecting effect.
Diplomacy: You fluster your enemy. For the next minute, the target takes a –2 penalty on all attacks rolls made against creatures other than you and has a 10% spell failure chance on all spells that do not target you or that have you within their area of effect.
Intimidate: The creature flies into a rage. On its next turn, the target must attempt to make a melee attack against you, make a ranged attack against you, target you with a spell, or include you in the area of a spell. The effect ends if the creature is prevented from attacking you or attempting to do so would harm it (for example, if you are on the other side of a chasm or a wall of fire). If it cannot attack you on its turn, you may make the check again as an immediate action to extend the effect for 1 round (but cannot extend it thereafter). The effect ends as soon as the creature attacks you. Once you have targeted a creature with this ability, you cannot target it again for 1 day.
This is a feat that is not, note the lack of a mind-effecting language.
A well-crafted insult forces an opponent to duel you.
Benefit(s) As a standard action, you can make an Intimidate check against a hostile target within 30 feet that can clearly see and hear you. The DC of this check is equal to 10 + your opponent’s Hit Dice + its Wisdom modifier. If the target is trained in Sense Motive, the DC is instead equal to 10 + your opponent’s Sense Motive bonus, if higher. If you succeed at this check, the target enters a duel with you. The target cannot withdraw from the duel for 1 round + 1 round for every 5 by which the check beat the DC.
Some more mind-affecting feats
Your study of death allow you to exploit your foes’ fears.
Prerequisite(s): Wis 15, Improved Unarmed Strike, Knowledge (religion) 4 ranks, ki pool class feature, nongood alignment.
Benefit(s): While using this style, if you have at least 1 point in your ki pool, you gain a +2 bonus on saves against fear effects, and the DC of Intimidate checks against you increases by 4. As a swift action, you can spend 1 point from your ki pool to empower your unarmed strikes. Creatures hit with your unarmed strikes must succeed at a Will save (DC = 10 + 1/2 your character level + your Wisdom modifier) or become shaken for a number of rounds equal to your Wisdom modifier. This is a mind-affecting fear effect.
Your wild shape form strikes fear into your opponents.
Prerequisites: Wis 19, base attack bonus +9, wild shape class feature.
Benefit: When you use wild shape, it is supernaturally ferocious and disquieting in appearance, such that when you attack a creature, you can use this ferocity to frighten observers. Opponents within 30 feet of you when you attack must succeed at a Will save (DC = 10 + half your character level + your Charisma modifier) to resist being affected by your frightful shape. On a failed save, creatures with fewer Hit Dice than you become shaken, or panicked if they have 4 Hit Dice or fewer; in either case, the effect lasts for a number of rounds equal to your character level. An opponent that succeeds at its saving throw is immune to your frightful shape for 24 hours. This is a mind-affecting fear effect.
Broken-Wing Gambit lacks this language, therefore it is not a mind-affecting effect and RAW works against (with?) the creature.
| GM supervillan |
Thanks for those examples Willuwontu, that’s really useful.
The one feat that you show that’s not “called out” as mind-affecting, Call Out, is also a feat that I can’t see working on an opponent that doesn’t have an intelligence score. (I used “mindless” to mean the same thing as “has no intelligence score”).
The Dueling rules from Ultimate Combat that are referenced by the Call Out feat are not described as mind-affecting, but as consensual in that all parties must agree to the duel. Call Out removes that consent and forces an opponent to duel for a few rounds. But looking at the dueling rules I don't see how a mindless creature could meaningfully participate. A mindless creature can't give consent in the first place.