I was sharing how the Alchemist in one of my groups has been spamming Smokebombs when I realized that I probably haven't been running Sneak RAW.
One of my players is fielding an Alchemist and has been spamming Smokebombs. The result is that players can do something, move into the cloud, and Hide to become Sensed. I've also been letting them Step out of the Smoke, do something, and then Sneak back in (but that may not be RAW).
After reading Sneak again, I don't think that's how it works rules as written. A player can't sneak into concealment while observed and go from Seen to Sensed. However... I think they really should be able to do that.
Please consider revising this section of the Sneak action rules.
You automatically become seen if you don’t have cover or aren’t concealed from them at any time during your movement, or as soon as you do anything other than Hide or Sneak.
Essentially - I think players should be able to start visible and Sneak behind cover/concealment. Sneaking behind foliage, into a fog bank, under a bridge, or behind an illusion should still grant Sensed...as long as the observer doesn't know where the player ended their Sneak movement.
It seems like this section of the First Edition rules would be relevant.
Being Observed If people are observing you using any of their senses (but typically sight), you can’t use Stealth. Against most creatures, finding cover or concealment allows you to use Stealth.
Here's a related question? Does an illusion grant cover provided that the target fails their saving throw? Let's look at Illusory Object.
Illusory Object
Spell 1
Traits Illusion, VisualCASTING
Actions Somatic Casting, Verbal Casting
Range 500 feet
Area 20-foot burst
Duration 10 minutesDESCRIPTION
You create an illusory visual image of a stationary object. The entire image must fit within the spell’s area. The object appears to animate naturally, but it doesn’t make sounds or generate smells. For example, water would appear to pour down an illusory waterfall, but it would be silent.
Any creature that touches the image or uses the Seek action to examine it can attempt to disbelieve your illusion.
Heightened (2nd) Your image makes appropriate sounds, generates normal smells, and feels right to the touch. The spell gains the auditory trait. The duration increases to 1 hour.
Heightened (5th) As the 2nd-level version, but the duration is unlimited.
Can a Rogue Sneak/Hide behind this illusory object? Or even better, inside this illusory object? Is there a place where this is outlined in the rules?
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I think one of the updates addressed this... The update in question reads "Page 158—In the Sneak action of the Stealth skill, in the
third paragraph, in the first sentence, change “any time
during your movement” to “at the end of the Sneak action”.
After the third sentence, add the following “If you succeed at
your Stealth check and then attempt to Strike a creature, the
creature remains flat-footed against that attack, and then you
become seen.” Remove the last sentence of that paragraph."
So now you can use the Sneak action as long as you find cover/concealment at the end of your movement...At least I think that's what you were asking.
Hope this helps.
Good day!
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So now you can use the Sneak action as long as you find cover/concealment at the end of your movement...At least I think that's what you were asking.
Missed that! Thanks much! Whew - I was running it correctly after all. :)
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Happy to help!
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Can a Rogue Sneak/Hide behind this illusory object? Or even better, inside this illusory object? Is there a place where this is outlined in the rules?
Yes, the Spells section gives some rules on illusions and how they work when they are visual.
If you did not disbelieve they look real and opaque, what would allow someone to hide behind them.Even when disbelieved they are phantom shapes that can grant concealment.
If the illusion is visual and a creature interacts with
the illusion in a way that would prove that it is not what
it seems, they may know that an illusion is present, but
they cannot ignore it without successfully disbelieving
the illusion. For instance, if a character is pushed through
the illusion of a door, they will know that the door is an
illusion, but they still cannot see through it. Even in the
case where a visual illusion is disbelieved, it may, at the
GM’s discretion, block vision enough to grant concealment
to those on the other side of such an illusion from the
disbelieving creature. Disbelieving an illusion makes it
and those things it blocks seem hazy and indistinct.