Lighting


Running the Game


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Since the rules on lighting are pretty incomplete - in particular, the rules on dim light don't seem to address dim light actually existing as a state other than via candles and a couple magic effects - I'm going to suggest the following:

* If you're in darkness and don't have Darkvision, or in dim light and don't have Darkvision or Low-Light Vision, the combat miss chance also applies as a failure chance to movement and manipulate skill checks you make.

* A bright light source also produces dim light out to twice its radius, like PF1. So a torch (20 ft bright light) would also produce dim light out to 40 ft.

* Dim light is a spread emanation and moves around corners, but bright light is a burst emanation and does not.

* A creature automatically notices if bright light enters its space.

* A creature does not automatically notice if dim light enters its space or if a light source enters its line of sight at a distance, but does get a Perception check.

There is also confusion about the concealment granted against attacks made vs a creature in bright light. The wording on that needs to be tightened up. I would suggest:

* If you are in dim light or darkness and attack a target in an area of bright light, the target has concealment against your attack. Low-Light vision allows you to ignore this penalty, but Darkvision does not unless you also have Low-light Vision. You can negate this penalty if you have 10 minutes to observe the target for your eyes to adapt.


I don't see how Low-Light vision would reduce glare from a spot of bright light. Low-light vision ought to make you more sensitive to light, not less.

Darkvision is not actually vision, as it does not rely on light at all. Rather, it is some kind of wholly magical perception. A kind of ladar (laser-based radar), since it cannot penetrate fog and other visual obstructions. Makes sense for skeletons and golems, who don't have eyes. For a creature with both normal and darkvision, the only difference between darkness and light is color - and possibly glare per the "concealed in light" rule.

I don't like that darkvision has an unlimited range. It made very good sense to me that darkvision works at shorter ranges that normally suffice underground, while low-light vision with its unlimited range was much better outdoors at night. [In PF1 you had to go to the low-light vision description in the bestiarium to find the rule that it allowed unlimited vision range outdoors.]

I actually like that darkvision can't tell if it is light or dark - that makes it possible for torch-carrying adventurers to use Stealth against them (by using cover or concealment, not hiding in the dark). Things do get a bit crazy when you can hide in the light of your own torch, though. :o


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Yes, I don't think a creature that can sense its surroundings perfectly well without light should automatically notice when bright light enters its space.

It's a realisation I had when GMing PF1e... I was making it hard for my players to carry light and stealth, but then I realised that I was imagining the situation from a human perspective. For a human (or other creature that relies on regular vision), the arrival of a light source when standing around in darkness would be blindingly obvious, if you'll pardon the pun.

But if I can also see my surroundings perfectly well without light, such as if I had Darkvision, the arrival of a light source is going to be a much more subtle effect. I'd be able to see colour where I couldn't before, so it could definitely be noticable, but not to the same extent as going from "not being able to see" to "being able to see".

I actually speculated that intelligent subterranean monsters with Darkvision might go so far as to paint "Intruders!" or similar in bright colours on the walls of their guard stations, so that they're more likely to notice if their surroundings start being illuminated.


I too really like the interpretation that Darkvision users won’t necessarily notice indirect light since they already see perfectly well, and thus get no improvement from such light.


The Stealth rules never mention light, they only talk about cover and concealment, which supports this idea - but only against creatures with Darkvision, really. Creatures with normal or low-light vision would reasonably notice a light. Then again, almost all creatures you'd meet underground do have darkvision.

RobRendell wrote:
I actually speculated that intelligent subterranean monsters with Darkvision might go so far as to paint "Intruders!" or similar in bright colours on the walls of their guard stations, so that they're more likely to notice if their surroundings start being illuminated.

Oglaf comic: The trapmaster - Warning, this image is office safe, but the rest of the comic definitely is not.


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The rules interactions for various light sources, as well as the mechanics of the Light Levels themselves need some serious clarification and possibly revision. When multiple, otherwise reasonable GMs*, come to wildly varied interpretations of a rule... there is most likely a problem with the rule.
*Excluding myself; I'm biased towards a very literal reading of the rules, which doesn't usually jive with how traditional RPGs are actually played.

My opinion is that many of these sections mostly just suffer from being too nuanced, and not explicit enough. The subtle use of phrasing and sentence structure is lost next to the obvious typos and apparantly contradictory passages the rules are rife with.

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