got a question about xenodruids


General Discussion


<My game master keeps ruining the module with spoilers> so xenodruids get the ability to plant transport at lvl 15 which allows them to use a plant their size or bigger to gtfo. They also get the ability to summon/grow grasping vines which fills an area of 20 ft Circle at third level. Thats the short and long of that.

Question is
can the lvl 15 xenodruid use the grasping vines to plant transport the party to safty? <at the end of the first module>


Pathfinder Roleplaying Game Superscriber; Pathfinder Starfinder Adventure Path, Starfinder Roleplaying Game, Starfinder Society Subscriber

Looking at plant transport, it looks like you transport to another plant of the same type, so I guess you should be able to use it, if there are other grasping vines in the solar system.

So based on that, it would come down to what system you're in and whether the GM decides that there are sufficiently analogous plants. You could even pop out of your current location, into the middle of some low level xenodruid's firefight in progress, where they actually used the grasping vines ability, instead of going to a naturally occurring plant, if you're in a nice, populated system.

They might also rule that the only plant of the same type is a natural hazard that you would need to deal with on arrival, though I would think it should be something that's basically flavor, rather than a real challenge, for a 15th level party.

They might also say that there are no plants of the same type, or that the grasping vines are a bunch of individual plants that are too small to use, and the ability fails, though that would be kind of a boring way to rule it.


I don't think that would work, it says on plant transport on page 89 that they have to be a similar type and that they need to be big enough for you to enter, and grasping Vines only last one round per Mystic level.
I love the creativity of your question by the way.


I don't think so. You need to be able to fit inside the plant, like a tree trunk or a really big mushroom: one giant mass. A bunch of vines no matter how overgrown have space between them... you wouldn't just want to teleport the 90% of you that was inside the vines would you?


The grasping vine plant fills a 20 foot radius. If thats not big enough for a mediumsized person to pass through then i have a loose screw somewhere. Shamelessly stealing what i heard before from somewhere but growa large plant in your quarters on your ship and you could have an escape plane somehow. My gm is totally against pcs dieing and will break immersion to save the party. Which means now he does not want to run this campaign because to him it looks like the party will die in the end. Its the campaign with the corpse fleet and the blackhole death cult worshippers.

90% is good enough for a druid who can reincarnate. and the xeno druid can bring back the party. He just needs party member chunks. Skin of teeth and all. Party survives suicide mission.

Also anyone here ever jump into a blackberry Briar patch? I have and its a pain to get out of and you can not see throught to the other side. I imagine jumping into a patch of grasping vines would be like jumping into a batch of blackberries.

Anyways how would you transport a plant big enough to teleport through? It can not be a pet or sentient.


I also do not see a spell listed that would allow a mystic to rapidly grow a plant of any size. So carrying a seed to a semi large Plant is also out of the question.


It would be a fun role-playing scenario to go find a incredibly fast growing fungus that fills a large space so you could set up a bunch of escape roots.


ghostunderasheet wrote:
The grasping vine plant fills a 20 foot radius.

No. the grasping vine plants occupy a 20 foot radius.

kinda like this

If the DM wants to say that works then that works but its not the call i'd make or expect.


BigNorseWolf wrote:
ghostunderasheet wrote:
The grasping vine plant fills a 20 foot radius.

No. the grasping vine plants occupy a 20 foot radius.

kinda like this

If the DM wants to say that works then that works but its not the call i'd make or expect.

Not really grasping vines are not flat they have volume. They take up space. They have a 5 foot reach. And since the xenodruid we are speaking about is at lvl 15. His grasping vines would double down on its attempt at prettending to be blackberry brambles. "At 11th level, the vines can reach 10 feet and sprout thorns that deal 1d6 piercing damage each round to creatures in the area."


That's still a bunch of vines, thorns and whatnot. A mass of many, many things, which are not that big individually.

And the text of Plant Transport very much seems to imply you'd have to able to fit wholly in one of them to be able to 'port. That'd mean a seriously tiny druid. Using the ability on trees and other "man"-sized things seems to be the intent.
One - and only one - to enter, one - and only one - to exit. And both have to be of the same kind of plant too, which could cause another set of issues with the grasping vines.

It's still a good ability - as long as there are no other Large party members.


but it is all one plant. Not a bunch of different plants. Thats like saying each branch of a tree is a different plant in of itself. Andthen saying each leaf of that those branchs are different plants as well.

I am guna call splitting hairs here.

You can walk or crawl into a blackberry bush and vanish from sight. Same with any other bushy plant. You just have to pass thought it out of sight and exit the other side at your destination. I would be with you if i was arguing the use of the ability on a corn or wheat field or a patcg of really tall grass or a small patch of whillow trees <those small thin trees thattend to grow together in small patchs>.


A creature fills a 5 by 5 foot square but isn't a 5 by 5 cube. Same thing with the radius


A creature fits in a 5 by 5 cube with enough room for evasive maneuvers. I have never played a pc so fat that it filled the whole five foot square. And party members can pass freely through a fellow party member's personal space.

I don't get why you brought that up. A 5x5 space is huge when compaired to the mass of a person.

The grasping vine plant is huge if it takes up the space of a 20 ft radius. It masses up it wriggles about and it lashes out to grab beings with in ten feet of it at 11th level it has a 5-foot reach before that.


A creature takes up a five by five area and still has enough arms left over to reach 5 foot over into the squares (which is prorportionately bigger reach than the 20 by 20 vines)

The parallel for why i'm bringing it up is obvious: occupying x amount of area is not occupying ALL of that area like a brick.


Well, I wouldn't expect a 20ft radius of vines to all be one single plant, but that's not really what matters.

Seems to me, this is becoming a kind flavor debate, with big mechanical implications.
One side sees it in a way probably colored by years of PF and D&D : stepping into a tree trunk or something similarly massive, and out of another, somewhere else.
The other sees it as, potentially, dissolving into a mass of writhing vines, and seeping and reconstituting (if that's a word in english) out of another, somewhere else.
Am I right so far ?

Why not. In a vacuum, it doesn't matter all that much.
I still read it as one big plant you could physically fit in, but i could see it the other way if needed.
In fact, Star-Knights of Ni! jumping from shrubbery to shrubbery would amuse me.
You know what, just because of that, I'll say any (natural) shrubbery big enough is eligible for transport. I'll houserule it if need be.

The specific question of summoned vines is important, though, and very much so, because magic.
Being able to transport through the vines means being able to do it from anywhere. Planetside, nice. Middle of the desert, very nice. In a place plantlife can not exist viably otherwise ? Big. On a lifeless, lightless, irradiated rock with no atmosphere ? The sterile hull of ship in outer space ?
Being able to use those abilities together makes a huge difference.

That alone is almost enough to make me think it doesn't work.
Instant travel, anywhere within the solar system, with fairly tame restrictions is already quite good. It would be huge boost to an already decent power.
Then again, I don't see it, but why not. Could be wrong.

And then comes the question of the kind of plants the vines actually are.
You can only transport between plants of the exact same kind after all.
It can't be just local flora, since they can appear in places where life is impossible.
Is it a specific kind, the same for all druids and only them - which means you're likely to pop out in the middle of someone else's fight ?
Caster's choice ? Each druid his own, set in stone depending on their homeworld, tastes, zodiac sign, the color of his soul or whatever ?
A new breed each time, existing only for the duration ? A mess of many varied plants of all kinds ?

The (understandable) lack on details in the ability's description makes me think it doesn't matter, which can only be if transport via vines is not a thing.
Again, why not. But I'm really not seeing it.

Apologies if I'm rambling like an idiot, it's 5am, i'm exhausted and not in possession of all my brain means. It's a fun puzzle.


Grasping Vines (Su) 3rd Level

You can spend 1 Resolve Point as a standard action to cause an area within 100 feet to sprout writhing vines in a 20-foot-radius spread. --------> The target surface must be solid but does not need to be capable of sustaining plants normally. <--------
The vines have a reach of 5 feet and attempt to wrap around creatures in the area of effect or those that enter the area; such a creature must succeed at a Reflex save or gain the entangled condition. Creatures that successfully save can move as normal, but those that remain in the area must attempt a new save at the end of your turn each round. Creatures moving into the area must attempt a save immediately; failure ends their movement and they become entangled. An entangled creature can break free as a move action with a successful Acrobatics check or DC 15 Strength check. The vines last for a number of rounds equal to your mystic level, and the entire area is difficult terrain while the effect lasts. At 11th level, the vines can reach 10 feet and sprout thorns that deal 1d6 piercing damage each round to creatures in the area.

Plant Transport (Su) 15th Level

Once per day as a full action, you can enter any living plant equal to your size or larger and exit from another plant of the same kind in the same Solar system, regardless of the distance separating the two. ------->The destination plant does not need to be familiar to you.<------
(Which implies that it can also be somewhere you do know)
If you are uncertain of the location of a particular kind of destination plant, you merely designate direction and distance and this ability moves you as close as possible to the desired location. If a particular destination plant is desired but the plant is not living, this ability fails and you are ejected from the entry plant.

--->You cannot travel through plant creatures.<--- (notice that it does not say magical plants or summoned plants )

You can bring along objects as long as their bulk doesn’t exceed your Strength score. You can also bring up to five willing Medium or smaller creatures (each carrying no more bulk than their Strength scores) with you, provided they are linked to you with joined hands.


Single vine or not it all comes from a single mass or heart of the plant. Which would make them like branches. But then again I am not a botanist so I wouldn't really know I'm going on assumptions here. Anyone who knows plants or is a botanist might be able to chime in would be helpful. Tes mass sprawls across a 20ft area and whips about with a 10ft reach has got to be as large or larger then a medium sized creature.


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You asked a Question and got several answers. I understand that it is not what you are hoping for but nobody is agreeing with you. Why do you continue to argue?
-Beta


Well i could just ignore them or i could just respond like a decent person who asked an opinion.

Second i am not playing a xenodruid. So its not important enough to upset me.

Third this is a debate. It is also a question. But i have not been convinced yet.

I am not fighting the answer i just dont agree with y'lls. Only requirment for the ability to work is that the plant has to be big enough it can not be a creature of some sort and the plant on the otherside must be alive. Y'lls hung up on the descriptive flavor text that says it has to be a tree or mushroom and you have to enter through it's stalk/trunk. I think you could do it with almost any one plant that was big enough and dense enough.

Fifth my gm is being a lil b~$*! because he does not want to kill the pcs in a suicide mission. From how he keeps on spoinling dead suns thats how it ends with everyone dieing against the boss as his ship explodes.

But then again your right i should shut up and just take y'lls believes I can't convince you I'm definitely not going to convince my GM that theres a way out.

Acquisitives

Pathfinder Adventure Path, Lost Omens, Starfinder Roleplaying Game Subscriber

1 - technically, i could call it a single plant. vines often spring from one source and then branch out - think a grape vine. That's fine by me.

2 - since it's so large (20 ft radius), yeah, it's big enough for a mystic to jump into it.

3 - the kicker - this is a temporary plant. of magical origin. which whithers and rots away in a few minutes at most.

so... it would really depend upon the flavor, and the DM. i think the player should work out the flavor by which they summon the vines - does the Druid just point with a finger or nod with their head? or do they have to pull out a pinecone from the Grove of Imminent and hurl it at the target, whereupon the resulting grasping vines grow as the Child Snatching Fir Roots of Zgummon?

I think if you want to just have it be an easy spell without flavor, as a DM, I'd forbid the use of the vines as a transportation measure. However, if you want to make your xenodruid more interesting (and have him carry around some pine cones or seeds or something) then sure.

But beware... those are seeds of nasty plants, and leaping headlong into the grasping vines is going to end you up in an ancient grove of these dread weeds. And who knows what cruel pollinator or titanic herbivore feasts upon them? And what might the alpha predator in such a despitous ecology be?


Pathfinder Roleplaying Game Superscriber; Pathfinder Starfinder Roleplaying Game Subscriber

I would allow a xendodruid to plantport using a thick mass of vines or fungus or whatever. Many of my fellow GMs would rule similarly I'd imagine.

Not sure about allowing it via spell-conjured vines though.


I think rules as written that as long as the plant is classified as being large enough, you can do it, though I think the point of contention is if logically the ability (or spell in other editions) requires the plant to have a contiguous surface large enough for a person to enter.

Most times I have seen it used it has been flavored as a doorway to another place opening in a tree trunk, or as a person merging into a tree trunk, which would be awkward to do if the plant is entirely comprised of centimeter thick vines (does the person separate into centimeter thick strips? Do the vines merge together to form a portal?).

I think it comes largely down to how you or your gm flavour the ability as working. If it works on a bush however, then wouldn't it also work on a grassy field? Some species of grass reproduce via seeds with a few blades being one plant, but others spread via runners so could possibly be thought of a large area being one plant.


Tendertendrils
I really do think grasses would be too hard to use or identify to use with plant porting.

Its been a few days since i looked at the spell. But i will take a moment to look it up after writing this sentence, but does it say merge? It just says enter the plant. Which could be taken ass passing though it. If you got your grasping vines hanging down from the ceiling of a ship corridor then you could enter it and once you pass from sight you would exit out in your designated area on your escape spaceship.

I was thinking of the ability as creating a portal that looks like plant matter on the surface and once you or your party pass though it it would return to being a normal plant. Ofcoarse that means on the other side you would have to deal with being tangled up in a grasping vine plant. But in the greater scene of things would you rather be tangled in a plant or stuck on a ship that is about to self destruct killing everyone on it?

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