Two sets of critical rules: Which one is right?

[tivadar27]

I raised this before but there's been no response. There are two sets of critical rules, on page 293 (Doubling and Halving) and page 308 (Critical Hit Damage). They say different things. The first indicates you double *all* dice and bonuses, the second indicates *specific* dice and bonuses (and whether those dice include things like sneak attack is unclear).

Please simplify this. I'd prefer the first set of rules, because the second seems needlessly complicated, but either way, there should be *one* set of rules...

[Fuzzypaws]

It seems pretty clear to me that what happens is that you double everything that you would roll on a normal hit, and then add (without doubling) any bonus damage that applies only on a crit, such as from the Deadly weapon trait.

[tivadar27]

@FuzzyPaws: Please read the rules on page 308. They indicate 3 types of flat bonuses you double, and precision damage is not among those types (such as from backstabber). So you're wrong for one set of the rules.

[Fuzzypaws]

They don't have to specifically call out precision damage as something to double, because it's already handled by the general rules on page 308. You double damage dice (and precision damage will usually be bonus dice), you double all modifiers (and if it's not a bonus die precision damage would still be a flat modifier), and then after your doubling is done you add crit-only effects. Exactly as I said.

[tivadar27]

Are you reading something different than I am. This is literally copied and pasted:
CRITICAL HIT DAMAGE
When you double the damage on a critical success with a
Strike, or with any other action or activity that multiplies
damage, use the following rules to determine which values
you multiply.
• Roll double the usual number of damage dice for your
weapon or unarmed attack.
• Add double your ability modifier to damage, if one applies.
• Add double any circumstance and conditional bonuses and
penalties to damage.
• Don’t double extra damage that occurs only on a critical hit,
such as the damage from the deadly weapon trait.

Notice that you double the usual number of damage dice (for your weapon? does that include sneak attack?), yes. You *don't* double all modifiers. You double circumstance and conditional bonuses. Please, if you're going to disagree that these rules contradict each other further, quote what you're reading from...

[Draco18s]

tivadar27 wrote:

(for your weapon? does that include sneak attack?)

Is your sneak attack dice "usual" damage? Or is it extra?