How does Sorcerer's Dangerous Sorcery Feat interact with Magic Missile

[Vlorax]

First how is the damage for magic missile calculated? Is it one roll that is then applied for each missile or do you roll each missile individually? And if they're individual does Dangerous Sorcery only apply to 1 missile or all of them?

Option A:
The caster rolls 1d4+1 for each missile.

Option B:
The caster rolls 1d4+1 once, and each missile does that much damage.

And how does Dangerous Sorcery interact with this spell?

pg 131 wrote:

DANGEROUS SORCERY FEAT 1

When you cast a non-cantrip spell that deals damage and that doesn’t have a duration, you gain a conditional bonus to that spell’s damage equal to the spell’s level.

If the caster rolls for each missile(option A) does this apply to only 1 missile? Or does it apply to every missile like the damage in Option B?

If I'm doing this correctly Option B would make MM do some serious damage.

pg 236 wrote:

wrote:

Heightened (+2) You shoot one additional missile with each action you spend.

So assuming 3 actions:

Lvl1: 3 Missiles
lvl3: 6 Missiles
lvl5: 9 Missiles
lvl7: 12 Missiles
lvl9: 15 Missiles
Under Option A:
lvl 1 MM (3Action): 1d4+1+1(Dangerous Sorc), 1d4+1, 1d4+1
(2.5+1+1) + (2.5+1) + (2.5+1) = 11.5 dmg avg

lvl 9 MM (3Action): (1d4+1+9) + (1d4+1) + (1d4+1) + (1d4+1) + (1d4+1) + (1d4+1) + (1d4+1) + (1d4+1) + (1d4+1) + (1d4+1) + (1d4+1) + (1d4+1) + (1d4+1) + (1d4+1) + (1d4+1)

(2.5+1+9) + (3.5*14) = 61.5 dmg avg

Under Option B:
lvl 1 MM (3Action): 1d4+1+1(Dangerous Sorc) * 3
4.5 * 3 = 13.5 dmg avg

lvl 9 MM (3Action): 1d4+1+9(Dangerous Sorc) * 15
12.5 * 15 = 187 dmg avg!

So depending on how the damage is rolled on this spell/how Dangerous Sorc is applied it changes the damage from 61.5 to 187 and it can't miss!

Seems like a great spell to have as one of your Spontaneous Heightening spells as a sorc if the damage is just rolled once.

So how do you calculate MM damage and how does Dangerous Sorcery Apply?

[Kodyboy]

I would do per missile making it far more useful. Of course this will be nerfed like all magic in PF2.

[Vlorax]

Kodyboy wrote:

I would do per missile making it far more useful. Of course this will be nerfed like all magic in PF2.

Per missile would certainly be more useful it'd become one of the most reliable and highly damaging spells in the game from what I can tell.

But I assume that wasn't the intent and there's something I'm missing

[GM Alexandra]

Personally, I think Magic Missile should be re-worded that if multiple missiles hit the same target, it's treated as the same 'damage instance', and nothing that increases the damage can apply multiple times.

I've been homebrewing a few things. Anytime I make anything affecting spell damage, the design is completely dominated by, "oh, but magic missile does this fifteen times per round."

[Elleth]

Hi!
Quoting Mark's response to me suggesting something similar to GM Alexandra.
TL;DR probably.

[Kodyboy]

If it is one time per spell and not per missile that is lame.

[Kodyboy]

I would think dangerous sorcery would be better if it was either the casters level or half the casters level and once per spell.

[Dragonborn3]

Id say, as written, it only applies once. The conditional bonus is equal to the spells level, so adding it more than once means it is no longer equal doesn't it?

They nerfed Smite Evil in PF1 because of Magic Missile Wand using Paladins so I doubt it'll be any different here in Nerf/Featfinder 2.

[Vlorax]

Dragonborn3 wrote:

Id say, as written, it only applies once. The conditional bonus is equal to the spells level, so adding it more than once means it is no longer equal doesn't it?

They nerfed Smite Evil in PF1 because of Magic Missile Wand using Paladins so I doubt it'll be any different here in Nerf/Featfinder 2.

That's why i'm asking how the damage for the missiles is calculated.

If you only roll 1d4+1 and then use that damage for each missile then applying it once is still amazing as it'd be 1d4+1+(spell lvl) * 15. (rolling 1d4 and using that dmg for each missile is how 5e does it, which is why i'm asking)

But if you have to roll each missile individually then it's just meh.

[Kodyboy]

Yep once it is meh at best especially for a 9th level spell

[Vlorax]

Elleth wrote:

Hi!

Quoting Mark's response to me suggesting something similar to GM Alexandra.
TL;DR probably.

That method makes sense in some ways, lets you combine all the little attacks to make 1 big one so resistance only applies once.

But what happens if I hit 1 target with 5 missiles and another with 10, which one gets Dangerous Sorc applied to it?

[Elleth]

Vlorax wrote:

Elleth wrote:

Hi!

Quoting Mark's response to me suggesting something similar to GM Alexandra.
TL;DR probably.

That method makes sense in some ways, lets you combine all the little attacks to make 1 big one so resistance only applies once.

But what happens if I hit 1 target with 5 missiles and another with 10, which one gets Dangerous Sorc applied to it?

So, the main thing I was trying to say in that comment that got quoted was you apply the effect once per target per damage source -multiple missiles on the same target being totalled together before other effects are added on.

So if 5 missiles hit one person, and 10 hit another, you simply add up 10 missiles for one, 5 for the other, and then add the 9 damage from dangerous sorcery to each.

This means that you can't instagib people with magic missile and other such spells, but you can mass ping minions without a roll or save. Combine it with wellspring spell and some careful splitting up of a level 5 magic missile's missiles and you should be able to reliably snipe the weak and clear them out.

I feel like an AOE Heal or Harm spell might be one of the more fun Dangerous Sorcery interactions.