Combat feats, metamagic feats and the proficiency system.


Classes


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I think the proficiency system can be used to fix some of the issues I've seen people having with the siloing of class feats.

Advancing in the proficiency system for things outside of the skill system doesn't seem to do very much. At least not as much as I had envisioned during the early announcements of the system. Yes it gives a +1 bonus but it seemed like it would unlock all sorts of other cool capabilities in the same way skill feats do.

Right now there are several issues with siloing of class feats that really need to be spread across multiple classes, such as not having access to shield fighting feats as a ranger or metamagic feats as a cleric. Many of these feats are also repeated across multiple classes, wasting precious word count and book space.

It seems to me there should be more generic categories of class feats, like the combat feats and metamagic feats of old and have them unlocked by advancing in the proficiency system. This would help future proof the system for additional classes without having to reprint multiple feats over and over again.

I'm hoping this goes along with more ways for classes to swap proficiencies around so that you can have an armor master fighter that unlocks higher level armor feats or war clerics that can get higher level weapon proficiency then their brethren.


I like your idea, but here's a counterpoint:

Maybe we need to get rid of General Feats. Replace them with more Class Feats, and create silo'd alternatives to things you could want for class feats.

For example, a Wizard class feat called "Midnight Oil" that granted Expert in Fortitude saves and the ability to sleep less time, so you never wanted to get Great Fortitude.

Or a specialized Diehard for Bards that allows you to continue using Compositions even while Dying 1.

Silo'd could be great.


I heard what you are saying but that leads to them printing variations on the same feat over and over again in slightly different variations every time they introduce a new class, wasting space that could be used for other more interesting things.

What if instead you got to choose a feat plus you got a class specific rider attached to whichever feat you chose to make things more interesting? So bards get x bonus when they choose a combat feat, y when they choose a metamagic feat and z when they choose a general feat?


I'd have an increase in proficiency do something in its own right. As it stands, with the partial exception of Crafting, proficiency above Trained seems to do nothing at all bar +1 and opening a gate to a feat. Which seems just tedious paperwork for its own sake. Skill Focus in PF1 was an average feat at best, and it gave +3/+6. Now the equivalent is +1 (arguably equivalent to +2 due to crits) plus being a Feat Tax.

Armour proficiency is a bit better (+1 AC, equivalent to 1e Dodge, etc, or better with the new crit rules) except that it's limited by your Shield proficiency and vice versa. Why??? (frustrated groan).

Liberty's Edge RPG Superstar 2008 Top 32, 2011 Top 16

I'd agree - too many feats should be taken by all, or things like metamagic by any caster.


*Scans the book for anything--class, feat, etc.--that grants Master or Legendary in saves.

Rogue: Evasion (Reflex, Perception); M
Rogue: Improved Evasion (Reflex, Perception); L
Monk: Path to Perfection (Fort, Reflex, Will: pick one); M
Monk: Third Path to Perfection (pick one); *advance it 1 rank
Ranger: Evasion (Reflex, Perception); M
Ranger: Improved Evasion (Reflex, Perception); L
Barbarian: Juggernaut (Fort); M
Barbarian: Improved Juggernaut (Fort); M
Bard: Mental Prowess (Will); M
Bard: Mental Stronghold (Will); L
Fighter: Battlefield Surveyor (Perception); M

That's it. The bard's is a feat and the rest are class features. Hilariously the Monk's Second Path to Perfection grants the "if you succeed, you crit-succeed" text that the rogue and ranger get automatically with Evasion (or the other class's "variant"), except it applies to all their saves (and they get it 4 levels later).

Even MORE hilariously, the Ranger class feature Masterful Hunter includes the following text:

Quote:

If you’re a master in Perception, you gain a +4 circumstance

bonus to Perception checks when you Seek your target

You are guaranteed to have that, given that Evasion at level 7 gives it to you!

That also includes all of the ways to increase your perception (above Expert) as well, meaning that general feat Expeditious Search literally applies to 2 classes (and only one of those gets the legendary bonus). :(


Draco18s wrote:


Even MORE hilariously, the Ranger class feature Masterful Hunter includes the following text:
Quote:

If you’re a master in Perception, you gain a +4 circumstance

bonus to Perception checks when you Seek your target

You are guaranteed to have that, given that Evasion at level 7 gives it to you!

That also includes all of the ways to increase your perception (above Expert) as well, meaning that general feat Expeditious Search literally applies to 2 classes (and only one of those gets the legendary bonus). :(

There's nothing hilarious about it, it's for PF1 style archetypes that trade away some basic class features.


...Its hilarious because it uses the grammatical "if" despite the fact that you're literally guaranteed to have it (and have had it for 10 levels).

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