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I’m having trouble wrapping my head around setting DCs in Pathfinder Playtest. Specifically I’m struggling to judge the level of a task. When acting against an NPC I understand that you can use its level as a baseline (especially if the NPC is not fully defined.) But how do you set a level for an NPC on the fly? What is the level for climbing a tree? What is the level for researching info at the library?
To that end I thought I would look at “The Lost Star” and see where the DCs are set in the adventure and attempt to reverse engineer them to see if I could get a sense of what benchmarks were used to set those DCs.
Often in this post I’ll be comparing the DCs presented in the adventure with the DCS on Table 10-2 (p.337 of Pathfinder Playtest Rules.) Rather than repeatedly typing out “this could be a Level 2 Hard check” I will use the following abbreviation system. #X.
# = Level number
X = a letter representing T (Trivial), L (Low), H (High), S (Severe) or E (Extreme)
BEWARE FROM THIS POINT ONWARD THERE WILL BE SPOILERS FOR “THE LOST STAR.” SPECIFICALLY REGARDING SPECIFIC CHECKS AND THEIR DCs! YOU HAVE BEEN WARNED.
A5 – DC13 Nature check to identify a hazard. Could be a 2L or a 4T. As the hazard is level 2 I’m guessing 2L. Why would the difficulty be set to Low? Is this a well-known hazard in Golarion? That would make story sense.
A6 – DC 20 Thievery check to unlock door. While this is the same DC as a standard lock in the equipment chapter where does the standard lock get its DC? Could be 4S or 7L. Neither feels right. The lock is a common item so its level 0. Something level 0 has a max Extreme DC of 17 without circumstance or conditional modifiers? This one confuses me.
(SIDE NOTE ON STORY – Why is A2 where some of the goblins live and sleep locked off from Drakus and the other goblins in A7, especially when Drakus has the only key?)
A6 – DC 15 Perception check to notice the crude alarm behind the door. Could be a 1S, 3L or 6T. Probably 1S. Maybe the level 1 Goblin Commando or Pyro set it up? Why Severe? Story reasons?
A6 – DC 15 Perception check to find evil idol in pool. Could be a 1S, 3L or 6T. No idea how to judge this one. What is the level of the check for fining an idol in dark murky water a couple feet deep?
A6 – DC 12 Thievery to remove the idol from the water without touching it. Could be 0H or 1L or 3T. Is the task based on the level of the idol or simply the task itself? I my mind, with the right tools this doesn’t even feel like a check is required but I understand there has to be a chance the Quasits get released.
A7 – DC 15 Athletics to climb a 15 ft. high ledge. Could be a 1S, 3L or 6T. No idea how to judge. No description of the wall just a DC. What’s interesting is that it would take 3 actions to climb without critical success or a feat.
A7 – DC 15 Perception check to find secret door. Could be a 1S, 3L or 6T. We know from the description that the secret door is “cleverly hidden.” It is also locked and has a tiny keyhole that (according to A10) Drakus’ master key can open. This indicated that the creators of this space (priests/worshippers of Pharama) created the secret door or that Drakus re-keyed the whole dungeon when he moved in??? Anyways DC 15 and clever make me thing 1S is most appropriate. Low or Trivial does not seem clever?
A7 – DC 15 Thievery check to pick lock of secret door. Could be a 1S, 3L or 6T. Why is this lock less than a standard lock (DC 20?) It is noted as tiny (at least the keyhole is.) Maybe only a smaller less powerful lock could fit in the secret door and still be cleverly hidden. Also from a game perspective the lower DC is a reward for the players who find the secret door, giving them an alternate means of accessing the final battle.
A7 – DC 12 Perception to hear the goblins arguing. Could be a 0H or a 1L. I’m guessing 1L given the Commando and Pyro are level 1 and have no reason to care about how loud they are.
A7 – DC 12 Perception to find the goblin’s stash. Could be a 0H or a 1L. Guess 0H and that this is the best the Warriors can do to hide their valuables. 1L would sort mean the Commando or Pyro hid it and really didn’t care to bother too much. (SIDE NOTE - Seems odd the goblins in A7 can make a trap with a Stealth DC of 17 but can’t hide their valuables better.)
A8 – DC 15 Perception to find the body of pathfinder. Could be a 1S, 3L or 6T. Maybe 3L since Drakus is level 3 and maybe he didn’t bother to hide the body that well?
A9 – DC 10 Religion to identify statue as Pharasma. Could be 0L or 1T. Doesn’t matter… essentially saying that Pharasma is easy to identify.
A11 – DC 22 Thievery to unlock chest. Could be 5S, 6H or 13T. How does this fit lock fit in with the standard (DC 20), expert (DC 25) and master (DC30) locks in the equipment chapter? Don’t know how to judge (see notes on “A6 – DC 20 Thievery check to unlock door” above.)
That’s most of the checks called for in “The Lost Star.” I can’t say the experiment worked very well for me. I’m still not sure how to judge the level of a task without having a creature or NPC to base it off of. To be honest the double process of choosing a level for the check and a difficulty is really hard to understand. It sorta makes sense when dealing with NPCs for whom you only have a level. But for everyday tasks than anyone can do and whose difficulty doesn’t depend on someone else’s skill I really want a chart to help me understand. What do the DCs looks like for Average Joe Villager in this world. What’s trivial, easy, hard, difficult and impossible for him/her? Then I can judge what’s appropriate for the PCs.
There might even be flat bonuses and penalties too. So the two A6 Perception examples might have cover/concealment as well.
Plus, I think these lean more toward being guidelines, given how much personal judgment factors in.