[Spheres of Might] Does the Mortal Chemist archetype not gain a Martial Tradition?

[Naoki00]

I sort of assumed that like the other archetypes they did, but I don't actually see it listed in the book. Is this just a mistake they errataed out or intentional? And if so would granting them one in the vein of the others just be an easy fix?

[GM Rednal]

Pretty sure that one is deliberate. Per the general rules for traditions, Classes and Archetypes that don't normally get a Martial Tradition can take one if their starting proficiencies include all martial weapons or at least one exotic weapon, or if the class background implies a strong martial component (with GM approval).

Alchemists do not meet either of these criteria - their background is basically "mixes stuff in a lab", not "goes out and fights stuff". The Mortal Chemist archetype is one of the least "martial" options, so they don't actually qualify for a tradition.

That said, Alchemists are technically proficient with their bombs (which are treated as weapons), and I suppose an argument could be made that those are very exotic indeed. I'm... not sure that was ever defined, actually. o_O It probably should have been, but I can't find an actual citation anywhere. If you're willing to rule the alchemists' bomb as an exotic weapon, then they can trade out proficiency (and probably buy it right back through the Equipment sphere, via Custom Training) as part of picking a martial tradition.

[Naoki00]

GM Rednal wrote:

Pretty sure that one is deliberate. Per the general rules for traditions, Classes and Archetypes that don't normally get a Martial Tradition can take one if their starting proficiencies include all martial weapons or at least one exotic weapon, or if the class background implies a strong martial component (with GM approval).

Alchemists do not meet either of these criteria - their background is basically "mixes stuff in a lab", not "goes out and fights stuff". The Mortal Chemist archetype is one of the least "martial" options, so they don't actually qualify for a tradition.

That said, Alchemists are technically proficient with their bombs (which are treated as weapons), and I suppose an argument could be made that those are very exotic indeed. I'm... not sure that was ever defined, actually. o_O It probably should have been, but I can't find an actual citation anywhere. If you're willing to rule the alchemists' bomb as an exotic weapon, then they can trade out proficiency (and probably buy it right back through the Equipment sphere, via Custom Training) as part of picking a martial tradition.

Alright I missed that line about needing the martial proficiencies normally and such. I mostly was just curious since not getting one does mean a bit fewer talents than some others due to this. I'll see how it goes over with the DM, thank you for the reply!

[GM Rednal]

For what it's worth, I think alchemists' bombs are comparable to emerging (i.e. Exotic) firearms. They take some understanding of chemistry and a decent chunk of people can use them, but they're still mysterious and unworkable by most of the population. An uneducated peasant can pick up a sword and at least try to use it - they can't even mix a bomb. ...On the other hand, throwing a bomb isn't very hard. XD Frankly, I think an argument could be made either way.

By the strictest reading of the rules, alchemists' bombs are not exotic weapons because they are never defined as such, and therefore do not qualify for trading out as part of getting a martial tradition. (That is, they're still weapons, but they don't count as Simple/Martial/Exotic for any purpose.) In that case, the Mortal Chemist isn't a true practitioner like the SoM classes or many other archetypes - it's better to think of them as alchemists who've just happened to learn a few good martial tricks.